376. When Going to Church Feels Hard with Christine Cook

I’m Jody Moore and this is Better Than Happy, episode 376: When Going to Church Feels Hard with Christine Cook?

Did you know that you can live a life that’s even better than happy? My name is Jody Moore. I’m a master certified life coach and a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. if you’re willing to go with me, I can show you how. Let’s go.

Hey there everybody. Welcome to the podcast. I’m so excited to bring this episode to you today. I think you’re gonna find so much value as we dive into this topic of struggling with your faith, struggling with going to church, and Christine is the perfect guest to help us work through it.

I will say this is part one of a two part topic. We’re going to hear from my conversation with Christine today. On next week’s podcast, I’m going to teach you a little bit more about James Fowler’s stages of faith and the way I think about it in the context of some of the doctrine of the LDS church.

So if this is a topic that either you’re struggling with, or you have loved ones or somebody you know, which is everybody, right. We all know somebody, if it’s not us. Make sure you tune in today and also join me next week. This will apply to any faith tradition.

Before we get started, there’s so many exciting things happening right now. I’m having so much fun speaking on the Time Out for Women speaking circuit. As of the day I record this, I’m going to Cincinnati tomorrow. So by the time you hear it, that event will have already happened. I hope that you’re going to be there and that I will have met you by the time this airs. But also I’m going to be speaking in Salt Lake City in November.

So come see me at Time Out for Women. I would love to meet you. That’s been my most favorite part of speaking at Time Out for Women has been getting to meet the other speakers and those event hosts and the people who come and sing as well as meeting you. So I hope to see you there.

The other conference that I’m getting to speak at that I’m so excited about is the Faith Matters conference called Restore. Faith Matters is an amazing organization. They are the publisher of my book, and they’ve brought in so many amazing speakers. I’m one of them, but there’s so many people I cannot wait to hear from. People like Terrell Givens, Jennifer Finlayson-Fife, Thomas McConkie, Patrick Mason, Jared Halverson, Fiona Givens, Tim and Aubrey Chaves, Mauli Bonner, Tom Christofferson, and just so many more.

I cannot wait for this event. It’s October 7^th and 8^th. So by the time this airs, it actually might be sold out, but I just wanted to mention it. Because if not, you should definitely come and join us there. You can head to faithmatters.regfox.com. That’s going to be a good time. Okay,

So let me tell you a little bit about Christine Cook first of all. I am in love with Christine Cook because I have known her for a pretty long time. I was there when she first went through coach training. She started coaching in my program Be Bold way back in 2019 and has been a coach with me ever since, but also has her own coaching practice. She is so lovely. She’s one of those people that you can’t help but love because she loves everybody. She’ll love you right back. It’s hard not to love someone who loves you right?

She’s amazing mom, amazing business owner. Let me read you her official bio. She says Christine was certified through the Life Coach School in 2018 and has been coaching ever since. She has been coaching in Be Bold since 2019 and loves serving the members of Be Bold. She’s coached at Jody’s events like Be Bold Masters. has helped train the coaches going through Jody’s advanced certification in faith based coaching training.

Christine has her own coaching business where she offers private coaching as well as group coaching program where she helps LDS women who are struggling with their faith but want to stay. She lives in Gilbert, Arizona with her husband and five sons. So let’s turn it over to my conversation with Christine Cook.

Jody: So Christine Cook, welcome to the podcast. Tell everybody who you are.

Christine: So my name is Christine Cook. I’m a certified life coach. I have been a coach in Be Bold for, what is it four years now?

Jody: Long time.

Christine: Been that long? Yeah, I can’t even keep track. But yeah, I have coached in Be Bold for that long. I have done coaching in my own business. I coach LDS women who are struggling with their faith, but they want to stay. That can be in like on so many levels. Like we’re really struggling with our faith, or we just want to kind of work on some of our thoughts and beliefs and struggles in our faith. So.

Jody: So what is it that made you choose to coach on that topic?

Christine: So I actually went through my own little struggle probably about three years ago. It was so hard if I’m being honest. Just everything felt so hard. Going to church felt so hard. Everything about my spiritual life just felt so hard. I knew that I wanted help. I knew that ultimately, I wanted to stay a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

But I didn’t know where to turn for help, right? Because I didn’t want to necessarily be tucked out of some of my beliefs. I knew I wanted to stay, but I didn’t feel like there was really anywhere for me to turn. So I worked through that. Once I worked through that, I was like okay, I want to be the person that I needed during that time.

Jody: I do think when you’re going through that kind of a faith exploration, it’s hard to find unbiased sources to talk to, right.

Christine: Yes.

Jody: Like everybody, feels like anyway, an agenda. So if it’s someone who’s left the church, it feels like there’s an underlying agenda of showing you why that’s the right path. For people that are still in the church, it feels like they have an agenda of helping you stay in the church. One of the things that we’re taught when we were trained as coaches at The Life Coach School was not to have an agenda for your client, right? Then our job is to help our clients discover their own choices and best actions.

So I’m curious when you say, I love so much the population that you work with, and I love the way you present it. Like struggling with your faith, but you want to stay. I would assume that doesn’t mean necessarily that they all do stay or that that that’s—It’s kind of like maybe I’m struggling in my marriage, and I want to stay married. Still, sometimes maybe the right choice for some people is to leave the marriage. But we usually go into I think a coaching or therapy situation with like an idea of what we kind of want. Is that what you’re–

Christine: Right. Yes. Like I personally am not tied to any result of my client. If they end up wanting to leave the church, I love them, right? Like I’m not judging them. I’m not trying to persuade them one way or another. But I wanted to provide a place for people who that was their goal was to stay. Because again, like what I was saying, I didn’t feel like there was a place for me to go where maybe the intention was to help someone leave the church, which that’s great. I’m glad that there’s help for people who want to leave the church.

Jody: Yeah, for sure.

Christine: But I also did not feel like I wanted to go talk to my bishop because I didn’t want to be told to just read my scriptures. I didn’t want to be told just to save my prayers. Because in that moment, reading the scriptures and saying my prayers was kind of the last thing I wanted to do. Like I knew mentally, probably if I did do those things that would help me in some kind of way, but it was the last thing I wanted to be doing.

So I knew a lot of it was some mental things that I needed to work through. A lot of like shame of and perfectionistic thinking around church and the gospel and all of that. Just some of my own judgments of myself and judgments of people in my ward. Yeah. So I just I knew I needed to work through that, but I just didn’t have a place to really go to where, like you said, it was an unbiased place where I could get help with that.

Jody: That’s awesome. So I’m curious. Both for you and the clients you’ve worked with. I would imagine, obviously, it’s different for everybody, but was there something that was like a catalyst to this experience for you and for many of them? Is it like somebody forwarded me an article or a letter or whatever? Or was it more just a combination of a bunch of small things?

Christine: That’s such a good question. So I would say a little bit of both, for me personally, and for my clients. I mean, I think maybe it’s just like something that kind of built up over time. Like maybe some of these beliefs that I should read my scriptures every day and Heavenly Father’s disappointed in me if I don’t read my scriptures. Just some of the shame and fear based beliefs that can come with religion or some of the things that were taught.

Or that I mean for me, I loved your episode that you did spiritual awakening. The people in level one I’m like that is my people. People in level one and I helped take them to level three where they can gain this spiritual awakening and really, for themselves, intentionally discover who Heavenly Father is. Kind of clean up some of those fear based beliefs and thoughts.

But back to your question. So I feel like for me personally, it was kind of a series of things that led up to it. I think initially it started out with my brother letting us know that he was gay. So while I love and support him and that didn’t affect anything with my relationship with him, I kind of had to take a step back and question okay, where do I stand on all this? What do I believe about all of this?

It ultimately was such a great thing. Because I did just get to decide personally and intentionally what I did believe and just not kind of the spiritual maturity, right, and immaturity and just kind of going along. I had to really decide on purpose.

Jody: I think that’s a catalyst for a lot of people to question the church, a child, a sibling, a loved one that comes out of the closet. Then it causes us to question because that is one area in our church where we just have a—there’s a lot of unknown actually. A lot of we don’t know, but that’s a big one. We have some really big important questions that we just still say I don’t know.

Christine: Yes.

Jody: On that topic, right?

Christine: Yes. Yes totally.

Jody: So how do we want to kind of teach this today? I’d love for you to give us some tips for people that are in the thick of this journey. Having questions about their faith, but their hope is to stay. What do you think is going to be the best way to frame it here? Do you have like tips or strategies?

Christine: Yeah.

Jody: You wanna share?

Christine: Yeah, yeah, I do. So, for me, personally, I know a lot of people when they are struggling with their spirituality or the church or having questions. I’ve heard people refer to it as a faith crisis. I actually don’t necessarily love the term faith crisis. Because to me when you hear crisis, it kind of denotes that there’s something gone wrong. That it’s something to fix. That we need to change it. I don’t think that struggling or wrestling with our spirituality or having questions means that anything has gone wrong. I think it gives us an opportunity to grow and become stronger.

As I look back to my own personal experience, while it was so hard, I’m so glad that I went through it. Because on the other side of it, I am so much better off. Spiritually, I’m so much stronger and more resilient because I did go through it. So I think that’s the first thing is just to recognize that it’s not a crisis. While it may be it can feel a bit scary or unsettling, it doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s a crisis.

Jody: I love that. I’ve said that before too. Then I’ve had people come back and say that they want to call it a crisis. It feels like a crisis. You don’t understand what this feels like. So I think what we’re saying overall is just faith crisis is a term. It’s a thought, right? I’m having a faith crisis is a thought. It’s not a fact. It’s just a way of thinking about it. If it helps you to think about it that way, by all means do it. But if it doesn’t, if it creates panic and fear and overwhelm, you don’t have to call it that.

I do think it’s fascinating that I haven’t heard of any other religion using that term. Every time somebody says they coach people through faith crisis, it’s always coming from the LDS faith. So I don’t know where it originated. That may not be. There may be other religions, I’ve just never heard of them. So it’s just a good thing to know that you don’t have to label it that. This could be part of your spiritual development, whether that takes you out of the church or not. It could just be a spiritual growth process that you’re going through.

Christine: Yes. For me, I like to call it just a faith journey because we are on our own individual faith journeys. There’s gonna be times where it’s hard and rough and kind of messy. Then there’s gonna be times where maybe it’s a little bit smooth sailing.

So, one of the other things that I would offer is that to keep in mind that when you do have questions, and there are questions that you’re searching answers to, that there is a difference between having a question and doubting.

I think that when we are questioning, questions are amazing, right? Because they lead to finding answers, hopefully, at some point in our lives. Whether we get an answer right away, or the answer comes a little bit later, it leads to an answer. But when we go seeking for an answer and we have doubts, it’s a little bit different, right? Because when we have a doubt, a doubt is defined as having an uncertain opinion about something or a lack of confidence. That’s kind of the opposite of faith, right?

So when we’re going into searching answers to questions, when we have a doubt, it’s like we already kind of have an opinion in our mind of what that answer might be. So I think when we go searching for answers, it’s so helpful to go in open minded, not being tied to a certain answer, either way right? Just being willing to accept either answer from Heavenly Father.

Jody: That’s good. That requires a great deal of openness and humility. Whenever this topic comes up, which isn’t a lot. I can’t say I’ve discussed it with a lot of people. But when it does, and we’re talking about, like is the church true? Are these things true? Did Joseph Smith see a vision and restore the gospel? When it comes right down to is it true, my brain just doesn’t get hung up on that.

I’m not saying this is right or wrong. Please don’t think I’m trying to say that this is the right way to think about it. I’m just, sometimes I ask myself why do I not question that? I guess because I choose to believe it. So I’m not looking for evidence that it’s true or not true because we don’t know. Like, there’s evidence that it’s true, and there’s some evidence that it’s not true.

Like when people say oh my gosh, there’s no way Joseph Smith could have written that book. He just wasn’t educated enough, and it’s so brilliant. I’m like okay, that’s fine. But you’re looking for evidence that it’s true. Somebody else will come along and give you evidence that it’s not true.

Christine: Yes.

Jody: I just love the idea that in the end, I get to just choose what I want to believe. I don’t have to have evidence one way or the other. I want to choose something that feels good. That makes me be my best self. That helps me contribute more. That helps me be more loving and more accepting of myself. So I’m not just choosing at random. I’m choosing something that that serves me in all those ways. If we all die and get to the next life and find out we were wrong, I’m okay with that. Because it still helped me live a better life.

Christine: Yes. Yes.

Jody: So, I don’t know. Am I crazy?

Christine: Maybe just a little. No, I’m just kidding.

Jody: I am a little.

Christine: No. I agree with you 100%. Because, I mean, we even teach this or show this to our clients when we’re coaching them right? When they come to us with some kind of evidence or proof of how this thing is true, right? There could also be proof or evidence of how it’s not true as well. So I think when you’re going to find answers, one of the things that I tell my clients is ask God. Like, if you want an answer from God, ask God. Because then you’re gonna get an answer from God.

Because you can go to anyone. You can try and find evidence that Joseph Smith was a prophet or wasn’t a prophet, or that the Book of Mormon is the word of God or isn’t. You’re going to find evidence of all kinds. I think trying to find answers to your questions by disproving, it’s just gonna be like a domino effect, right? It’s going to be never ending. So I think it’s so helpful if you want an answer from God, ask God, right.

Again, to me, when you’re asking other people what their opinions are, it’s all just their thoughts. It’s their own personal thoughts. So I think going back to what you said, it’s so helpful. Is this serving me to believe this? Again, asking God and not asking other people.

Jody: Yeah. We get that it’s complicated because God answers us and speak to us through other people and everything. But it just requires a great deal of courage to get still and choose what you want to believe in the end with things like these topics that we talk about in religion that ultimately we can never prove that God exists, and we can also never disprove.

Christine: Yeah.

Jody: So, yeah. Okay, that’s good. What else? Let’s give like one more kind of practical tool, at least, for people who are in the midst of this.

Christine: Okay. So when it comes to questions and having questions, there’s two types of different questions. So the first type is what I call primary questions. I’m not meaning like primary the organization for kids.

Jody: We don’t mean for kids.

Christine: Yeah. Yeah. Like I mean first, right. So primary questions, and then there are secondary questions. So when you’re struggling, it’s so helpful to look at the primary questions first and start there. Because sometimes I think when you are in this struggle, it’s tempting to just where do I even start? Where do I even begin?

So I think this is kind of a good place for you to start if you are struggling is to start with the primary questions, which is there a God who is our father? I think that’s the most primary question, very first question. If you’re like yes, I believe that, move to the next question, which I think is Jesus Christ the son of God? Was Joseph Smith a prophet? Is the Book of Mormon the word of God, right? I think those are like the primary questions.

Then there’s all the secondary questions, which we kind of touched on a little bit earlier, which is what about people who are gay? What about Heavenly Mother? What about like all of these other questions that maybe we don’t have all the answers to? I think first work on the primary questions. Then once we work through those, then start working on some of those secondary questions and asking Heavenly Father for answers for those.

Jody: Would you say with the secondary questions that they’re things that maybe we know a lot less about? Or?

Christine: I would say so. Yeah. Some of them, who knows if we’re even going to have answers while we’re here on Earth? But that doesn’t mean that you can’t ask Heavenly Father for more information, more guidance, or anything like that. I think He wants to give us that. But yeah, it’s one of those things where it’s like also, we’ve got to trust God’s timing as to when He gives us that information.

Jody: Yeah, the primary questions, there’s not even very many right.

Christine: No.

Jody: Versus the foundational doctrine.

Christine: Yeah. So I think that like when you can answer those primary questions of like yeah, okay. I am going to choose to believe these things. I do believe these things. Sometimes it makes those secondary questions a little bit easier to deal with, right. Like I don’t totally understand some of them or the answers or maybe there’s no good answer, right.

Like I feel like, as far as like Blacks in the priesthood and when they receive the priesthood, I don’t know that I’ve necessarily heard a good answer for the reasoning behind that. But it’s like I just go back to the primary questions of yes, I do believe these things. I don’t understand that. Maybe I don’t even necessarily agree with that part, but I do believe in these primary questions here.

Jody: That’s good. Okay. So just kind of as we wrap up here, what would you say to somebody who says well, you’re just being naïve. Because we can rationalize or justify I mean at an extreme, this is how people end up following a cult leader, right? Is they just rationalized like well, we just don’t know everything. We just need to have faith and go along with it.

What do you think makes at least the LDS faith, which is the one where we know best and probably a lot of other religions. What makes it different from like, an unhealthy cult following, you might say? I mean like you see there’s all these documentaries now on Netflix and things about how people start following a cult leader and end up doing really terrible things. I don’t know about you, but I look at those things and think well, I would never. Like how, how could they have been so blindsided? How could they have thought that that was okay?

I do think it’s an important question of like how do we know we’re following something that’s good and pure and righteous and that’s going to serve us in the end? How do we not fall for what we’re all susceptible to, which is actually following somebody who’s leading us somewhere dangerous or bad?

Christine: I think that’s where like our own spiritual maturity comes in. Where we are seeking answers to our questions and not necessarily relying on someone else for those answers, right. Like, I think checking in with where do I stand on this? What do I believe in this? Also, again, going back to what you were saying earlier, does this serve me to believe this?

Because some of the things it’s like when I first was really struggling, the only thing that I had to hold on to in that moment was I don’t know, but all I know right now is it really serves me to believe in these things. It really serves me to go to church and to serve others. So that’s what I’m going to hold on to right now.

So I think checking in with what results is it creating in your life? What impact is it having? Is it creating a good impact on your life? Or if not, maybe that’s when you want to take a look at it. But, again, getting answers to your own questions, right and checking in with is this something that I believe? We’re not just blindly following.

Jody: Yeah, I love that. I think we have to be careful to in how we talk to our kids. Because sometimes, I don’t know. It’s tempting to tell kids like no, we just need to be obedient and follow. We don’t know why. I think that’s a dangerous message. I like to tell my kids that you can come to an understanding of why. If you, like you said, turn to God and pray and ask to understand, He will help you understand it. It might even be an understanding that you can’t even articulate. You just feel the truth of it and the righteousness of it.

I know I’ve had a lot of those experiences as I’ve just chosen to follow what seems like a good decision and ask to understand it. I feel like I come to understand it in a way that when I say it out loud doesn’t make sense, but I understand it in my heart. So.

Christine: Yeah.

Jody: I think that’s part of the journey, you know?

Christine: Yes. That we’re not just doing it out of fear either.

Jody: Right. That’s right. What would you say is the—What good or what is the best part of what’s come out of your experience, Christine, your journey as you sort of allowed yourself to question your faith?

Christine: Yeah. So I feel like our brains, they like to see the whole path before us, right. Like they don’t like the unknown. They want to have the answers to the questions. So I think, when I was in that space of not knowing completely to knowing or having an answer, there is so much discomfort in that. That is where I grew so much is really wrestling and experiencing the discomfort that comes from that.

Also, I think one of the key things that was really helpful for me too was it gave me an opportunity to really turn to God and learn the way that he speaks to me. I feel like sometimes that isn’t necessarily an easy or natural thing to be able to do, right. I think sometimes we think that maybe it should, but it gave me the opportunity to be able to learn to do that.

I just I am so much stronger spiritually on the other side. I’m not just going to church just because it’s what I’ve done my whole life. I’m not just in this pattern of just doing the same things over and over again just for the sake of that’s what I’ve been doing.

It’s like I all of a sudden became really intentional with my spiritual life and what I wanted to do and what I wanted that to look like and finding ways to be able to hear Him. Whereas maybe that was a little bit of a struggle before. So it opened up a lot of doors for me that way, and just really—It’s more intentional whereas before, it was just kind of something I was doing because I just always did it.

Jody: That’s awesome. I love hearing you say that. I remember. Like you said, you’ve been coaching with me for about four years. It was only about three years ago you went through this. I remember you just casually like at lunch or whatever being like but what about this? I don’t know about that. I’m not sure I want to go to this meeting or what have you. I remember being like huh, I wonder what’s going on with Christine. Just watching you navigate it, which you did so beautifully.

The other thing I’m thinking that is probably I’m sure got to be one of the most challenging parts of all of this is the relationships with the people in your life. Did you tell your husband that you were questioning all this? How did how did that go? What advice can you give people in that situation?

Christine: Yeah, so I didn’t tell any buddy else other than my husband. Because I was, again, like I wanted to turn to someone. But I was like I don’t want to tell my friends because I don’t want them to panic. Right? Like I don’t want them to like all of a sudden be super worried about me. I don’t want to tell the bishop or people at church because I don’t want to become a project. I don’t want to just be told to do these things.

But I did tell my husband, and he was a little worried about me. He didn’t he did tell me. He’s like I’m a little worried. Like he just kind of knew that I think he just knew I needed to go through this experience. He was there to just support me along the way and yeah. So I did share that with him, and it was helpful to at least have him. So.

Jody: So what did you say to him exactly? How did you say it?

Christine: You know it wasn’t just like a onetime conversation. I think it was several conversations. I think that he could just kind of see me struggling. I can’t even think of anything in particular that I told him. I just remember him telling me I’m worried about you. I’m worried. I was probably worried about me too, right?

Like, I think it was like I wanted to stay in the church, but, again, it just felt so hard. I remember sitting in the church parking lot, and it was after sacrament meeting. I was in the car making a list of reasons why I wanted to go to church and why I didn’t want to go to church.

Thankfully I had the training that I did. Because some of the reasons on my list for not going I could recognize and see those aren’t actually great reasons for not going. Some of them were actually reasons to keep going. So I was grateful that I actually had the training that I did so that I could recognize that. I’m like people need coaching in this because some of the reasons why—

Like, I think one of the reasons why I wanted to not go was because it was hard because I didn’t feel connected to people in my ward. Because I felt judged. I was like you know what? These are actually reasons for me to keep going. Because if I don’t keep going, it’s not going to get any better. It’s maybe even could get worse, right? So I’m like it needs to go on the reasons for going to church.

Jody: So that’s interesting. Yeah. I think of course everybody’s situation is different, but I think that to hold that space for yourself, to go through that experience. It might be—Again, I’m not saying for everybody, but I would just say to consider finding someone, whether it’s your spouse or a close friend or a sister or somebody, obviously ideally a coach as well, that you can discuss it with. Because otherwise, I feel like we have to move into pretending.

Christine: Yeah.

Jody: That’s challenging to do. At least you need one place in your life where you don’t have to pretend. The opposite of pretending is just telling the truth. But the whole truth is usually really much easier for people to embrace than just a part of the truth. So a part of the truth would be like I’m not sure if I believe in this church anymore. I want to, but I just have a lot of unanswered questions and doubts.

But the whole truth is that plus I’m kind of afraid that you’re gonna panic and freak out. I don’t really want to leave the church. But also, if that’s the right path, I may, and I need to be open to all that. I hope this doesn’t freak you out. I’m not trying to cause problems in our marriage or our family, but like that’s the whole truth.

Whole truth is messy. It doesn’t make sense. We don’t even know. We’re going to contradict ourselves a little bit even. But the whole truth is usually really lovable. Again, not that it is a private experience. It doesn’t need to be public. But I do think that you need one safe place, at least where you can be real, don’t you think?

Jody: Yes, yes. I love that. I think if you are a person who has a loved one who is struggling, be that person for that person, right? Like we don’t need to fear. Like that was one thing I was grateful for Brad is that he was worried about me, but it’s not like he was in a panic about it, right? Or he wasn’t trying to persuade me in any way. He was kind of just letting me have my experience.

I think that be that person. If you have someone in your life who is struggling, we don’t need to freak out. We don’t need to go into fear. Like if they may need to leave the church. Maybe they may not come back during this lifetime. Who knows. But I think we just don’t need to panic or worry about it. Just how can I be that loving, supportive person where I am that person that they can come to have support through this?

Jody: Yeah, that’s right. I love that. Okay, well, Christine Cook, where can people get more help or tools from you?

Christine: Yes. So you can go to my website. Get ready. It’s survivingtothrivingyourldsfaithjourney.com.

Jody: Okay, what are we going to find there?

Christine: I have a few different ways that you can work with me. So I do offer private coaching where you can work with me one on one. The other way that you can work with me is I have a six month group coaching program where I take women through this program of where we first initially work on your relationship with Heavenly Father and your beliefs around Him and what you believe He believes about you and all of that. Your relationship with you. It’s basically to help your spirituality right.

Jody: Okay.

Christine: Like I loved in your book, let me just say this really quick. I loved in your book how you talked about how we have our mental health and our physical health and our spiritual health. I think that the mental health is kind of like the big umbrella, right? Because if we’re not healthy mentally, our spiritual life is going to be affected, our physical life is going to be affected. So that is kind of what this program is, is just to help you with your mental health so that your spiritual health can be increased.

Jody: Good. Nice. You’re also on Instagram. Yeah?

Christine: Yes. Yeah, my Instagram is It’sChristineCook.

Jody: It’sChristineCook.

Christine: Yep.

Jody: Okay, everybody go follow her. She has so many awesome nuggets that you’re gonna want to grab, even if you’re not going through this kind of a faith journey. You always have some really great stuff. So thank you for coming on Christine.

Christine: Thank you. I love you Jody Moore.

Jody: Love you girl.

Hey there, if you enjoy this podcast or even if you just find that it sort of piques your curiosity, or it makes you think, you’re going to love the book that I wrote. It’s called Better Than Happy: Connecting with Divinity Through Conscious Thinking. it’s available now at Amazon in print or kindle version. Or if you want me to read it to you, head over to audible and grab the audio version. why not grab a copy for your sister, your best friend, or your mom while you’re there too. Just saying.