425. Imposter Syndrome is Not Real with Lindsay Lyman

I’m Jody Moore, and this is Better Than Happy, episode 425 Impostor Syndrome is Not Real with Lindsay Lyman. 

This is Better Than Happy, the podcast where we study what the healthiest, most successful people in today’s world think, feel, and do. We leverage this knowledge to create our best lives. Are you ready little bird? Let’s fly. 

Hello, everybody. Welcome to the podcast. I have a couple of family members, a few family members, who are coaches who have been on this podcast before, but I think this is the first time we’ve had Lindsay on. I don’t know why we’ve waited so long. I’ve actually been asking Lindsay to come on for a very long time. So I finally convinced her. 

Lindsay Lyman is my little sis. She is six years younger than me, in case that matters, and definitely, at least six years wiser than me I always say. She always has been. Ever since we were little kids, Lindsay just was confident and mentally and emotionally strong. Also just one of the best people I know. 

So, Lindsay has an extensive background working at Amazon for many years and has been coaching employees both in and out of Amazon who want to navigate corporate America, their careers. She’ll tell you a little bit more about that. But I asked her to come on today and talk about imposter syndrome because she has a very interesting viewpoint, and I found it to be a really useful way to think about it. So without further ado, here is my conversation with my sister Lindsay. Here we go. 

Jody Moore: Welcome, Lindsay Lyman. Let’s see that cup you’re drinking from?

Lindsay Lyman: Oh this Jody Moore coaching?

Jody: Wait, I have the same one.

Lindsay: I just want everyone to know Jody Moore’s my sister.

Jody: That’s right. This is my sister Lindsay Lyman, you guys. If you’re listening on audio and you can’t see our video, we have these like imitation Stanley Cups with my logo on them that I’m pretty proud of. Pretty proud of that. Very good.

Lindsay: I won’t lie though. The straw’s really thick. It’s too fat. I can’t get my mouth around it. 

Jody: That it’s too wide around or is the plastic too thick or what?

Lindsay: No, it’s a thicker straw. I know some people are into that. I’ve learned not my jam. So I recycle my real Stanley straws on it. It’s great. 

Jody: Yeah, yeah, the straw’s not great. But anyway. Okay. Welcome, Lindsay Lyman. Let me do a quick intro. This is my little sister, Lindsay. Lindsay is a certified coach at The Life Coach School, a mother of three beautiful daughters and one cute dog, and former Amazon employee rock star. Is that a thing at Amazon? Rockstar? 

Lindsay: Sure. Why not? It is now.

Jody: I feel like it is, and I feel like you were one. You were there a long time. 

Lindsay: Forever. Yeah.

Jody: You were like pretty high up at Amazon. Just brag for a minute. Tell us? 

Lindsay: Yeah, it was a lot. The average employee lasts a little under two years. I was there for 12. Truth be told, I don’t know if that means I was just slower than the rest. 

Jody: It took you longer to figure out you didn’t want to be there.

Lindsay: To figure it out. Yeah. Or I don’t know. Sometimes I’m like no, I just had thicker skin. I liked myself. So I was like yeah, you’re wrong. On I went, but I learned a lot.

Jody: You were good at your job. So they kept promoting you and giving you more money, and you liked your coworkers and things mostly. 

Lindsay: Yeah, I worked with some amazing people. I learned so much. I was really successful in a lot of things I did. It just kind of got to the point where I was like I think I’m ready for something else. The operational overhead of things, and I wasn’t growing as much as I wanted. I was just ready for change.

Jody: Okay. You’ve been a coach for a little while. Even when you were at Amazon, you were coaching. So tell everyone about what led you to coaching and who you coach and a little bit about that part of your life.

Lindsay: Yeah, sure. I went through coaching. I found out about it through you. I was like oh, I love my sister even though this coaching thing is weird.

Jody: I know. Everyone did think it was kind of weird at first. 

Lindsay: Yeah, we respect you, but we were like life coaches? Like we’re not touchy feely emotional people. 

Jody: It’s true. 

Lindsay: So I was a little confused at first, I won’t lie. But yeah, I’m glad it’s working out. So I kind of first got exposed to it with that. Then I went through some really hard things when I was at Amazon as the sole provider for my family. As Amazon was going through transitions, at one point my position was even eliminated. I was working with some really tough, not appropriate, hard leaders and not getting the support I wanted. Coaching was really the thing that kind of made the difference. 

It got me out of the this isn’t fair, what am I going to do doom and gloom and felt like I had some realistic tools to kind of move forward. It made me realize so many people I work with are brilliant, and they would just leave exhausted, questioning themselves in these horrible emotional states. I was like we need to teach this to people in the work setting. So that’s when I went all in and got certified and really started coaching people, kind of from that executive coaching standpoint.

A lot of my clients are technical employees. They’re software development engineers. They’re program managers, project managers. A lot of them aren’t, but majority of the things I coach on are around kind of that career setting. These days, there’s a lot of layoffs. People aren’t really motivated. We’re struggling with back to office versus working from home. 

The state of the economy is definitely in this uncertain space. Morale is pretty low across the board. People are just struggling, and there’s not a lot of great answers. So I love to just be able to help people feel a little bit of hope and learn what’s going on for them and teach them some tools to kind of move forward and drive their career, even when things outside of their control are going to keep happening.

Jody: I love it. So you help people achieve their career goals, but also enjoy their lives along the way. 

Lindsay: Yeah, yeah.

Jody: Important component of it. 

Lindsay: Yeah, a lot of the folks I work with, they’re really brilliant. A lot of them are very successful, but they’re not happy. Emotionally, they don’t have the tools to have that full life that they want. 

Jody: Yeah. Love it. Good stuff. Okay. Today, we’re going to talk about a topic that will be really relevant for anybody in that space, but it will also be relevant to those of you who maybe aren’t working for a corporation but you either have your own business or you have volunteer job that you do at the school, or you have a church calling. Really any kind of responsibility at all that you either voluntarily take on or you are voluntold you will be doing.

It’s going to be applicable today, because we’re going to talk about impostor syndrome. Dun, dun. Okay. So, for the record, Lindsay and I did not have a pre-discussion about what we’re going to say other than Lindsay said to me, tell them what you said.

Lindsay: I said I want to come onto your podcast, and I want to talk to the people and tell them why I think impostor syndrome is a big fat lie. It’s a bunch of crap. We need to remove it from our vocabulary.

Jody: I was highly curious, but I didn’t want to have a pre-discussion. I wanted to have the discussion here on the podcast. So with that disclaimer, impostor syndrome is something I don’t talk about it a lot, but I have probably before. It’s something I haven’t thought about as being a problem or a lie until you said that. So let’s dive in, Lindsay. Tell us why you think this is true. Before we talk about why it’s true, we should talk about what it is. I mean I think people have their own assumptions, but what do you mean by it?

Lindsay: Yeah. So the term imposter syndrome was identified back in the 70s by a group of researchers that were kind of interviewing and watching. It was a group of kind of professional women was where this term was originally born from. 

They noticed that they were feeling insecure and unsure as they were trying new things and doing things for the first time. They were getting frustrated and kind of worried that there’s something wrong with them and judging themselves, and they termed this imposter syndrome. 

It’s not necessarily a medical condition. It’s a feeling we have. It’s kind of become this buzzword now as we’re trying new things, and we don’t feel as confident and adequate. A lot of times we use this term of oh, I just feel like an impostor. I think there’s kind of two pitfalls we get into as we use this term to identify with. 

The first is, it makes us think, well maybe there’s something wrong with us. It’s really kind of grounded in this deficiency. There’s something not right. The second thing is it makes us think it’s our job to go and fix it and go and change it. 

So usually, we feel this imposter syndrome as we’re doing something for the first time or trying something. If you get a church calling and you don’t know the people or what to do, you’re going to feel really uncomfortable. Or you’re leading something at your kids school, and you’re making it up as you go along. A part of the process is feeling a little bit silly and a little dumb and like you’re screwing some of it up. You maybe are, but that’s part of the process. 

So when we’re worried about something’s wrong with us, and we need to go and fix us. It actually kind of keeps us focusing on what we actually want to do, helping people, hitting that goal, delivering the thing, and makes us try to just fix ourselves so that we feel good along the way.

Jody: Hmm, interesting. Okay. I have a couple thoughts and questions. So the word imposter means to pretend to be someone else or something else, basically. I mean I didn’t Google this. I didn’t do the research, like you did. So correct me if I’m wrong, but that’s how I think about that word. 

So if we step into a new role and then we are pretending to be that person, of course it’s going to feel pretend because we’ve never done that before. We’ve never been the young women’s president before. So if I get called to do that, I’m going to have to pretend like I’m a young women’s president when I actually am. It’s just in my mind I haven’t taken on that identity yet. 

The word imposter, to me, sounds dishonest. It’s out of integrity. Like if I’m pretending to be this thing that I don’t feel like I am then I’m out of integrity. I wonder if that’s why part of the problem with this feeling and then labeling it that is it implies that we’re doing something dishonest when you’re not doing anything dishonest. It’s just you have to step into the identity and be that before you actually become it internally.

Lindsay: Yes, right. It’s part of the symptom of growing and progressing and getting to where you want to go. It really resonated with me. Back in the 1890s there was a similar term, though not imposter syndrome, where it was called bicycle face. I think of it now, and I’m like oh, that sounds scary.

Jody: What’s bicycle face? 

Lindsay: But this is the 1890. So women are in hoop skirts. We’re at home. We’re taking care of the kids. We don’t have as much stay in things. Well, in 1890s is when bicycles kind of became really popular. It used to have one big wheel and one small wheel, and that didn’t work out great. But once they balanced out the wheels, all of a sudden women realized they could get around on their own. They could get to places. 

Then they were like wait, this skirt is a terrible idea on a bicycle. I’m going to start wearing bloomers. So things started to change and shift. We know, as humans, we don’t always love change and shift, and that’s a little bit scary. But the symptoms of bicycle face, get this, are things like blushed cheeks, a hard clenched jaw, eyes bulging, expressions of irritability. So things that naturally happen as you’re riding a bike. Like you’re going uphill. 

Jody: Yeah. Okay, so is it that it’s new, or is it that it’s like hard work riding this bike?

Lindsay: It’s hard work. If you’re riding a bike up a hill, your cheeks are going to get flushed. You’re hot. You’re moving your body. There’s nothing wrong with this. It’s not bicycle face. It’s simply riding a bike. 

Jody: It’s putting in some effort in way that exerts you, and that is uncomfortable. 

Lindsay: Correct, right. There’s nothing wrong with maybe you’re going to get flushed cheeks. You’re maybe going to sweat. You might clench your jaw as you’re like huffing and puffing and trying to get up the hill. So what ultimately happened was Dr. Sarah Hackett Stevenson, she was the first ever woman admitted to the American Medical Association. 

When she went there, it wasn’t like she tried to create all these tests to prove out bicycle face. She basically just went and challenged the entire premise and was like this is dumb. This is not a thing. There’s not a symptom. There’s not a problem. This is called riding a bike. 

Today, we have other terms of like resting B face. Like, you’re just sitting there, and someone’s like oh my gosh. What’s the matter? You’re like no, I’m just like I’m just having a human moment right here. So I kind of think imposter syndrome sits in the same place. It’s not this thing that we need to go and be scared of and try to fix and solve. It’s the flushed cheeks of riding a bike. It’s part of the process of learning and growing and doing something new for the first time. Part of the symptoms is you feel inadequate, and like you’re doing it wrong and some self-doubt. 

So what it’s actually telling us is you’re exactly where you should be on the way to getting to that end result. It’s the exact result you want. When you’re riding a bike, if you’re trying to move your body and burn calories, if your heart rate is not up and you’re not sweating, you’re not getting there. It’s the sweat to where you want to go.

So that’s why I think like impostor syndrome just has such negativity. It’s like we want to pause and fix it. I’m like no, go all in. Go feel it even more. You’re going to get to where you want to go so much faster.

Jody: So just like bicycle face is not a thing, it’s just you’re exercising. Congratulations, you’re moving body. Maybe imposter syndrome isn’t a thing. It’s just you’re new to this. That’s all it is.

Lindsay: That’s it. 

Jody: It’s just you’re new to this. Welcome. Being new often doesn’t feel good. It’s kind of scary. It’s kind of uncomfortable. You’re not very good at it, etc. Like if we took impostor syndrome away and stopped labeling it this what sounds like a clinical diagnosis and something we need to fix, maybe we would free ourselves to just be new. I love that. I love that. 

Okay, so let’s talk about that for just a minute. I am fascinated by this. I feel like I talk about it a lot. But I’m fascinated by how terrible we are as adults at being new. How afraid we are of being new. Like, we think that because we’re over age 30, we should just be good at anything that we want to do. If we’re not good at it, we shouldn’t do it. 

Like I love to get on the internet sometimes and look up ballet classes. Notice that there’s like ages two to six in this class, and seven to 10 in this class, and then all the way up to about age 18 or whatever. Then if it’s just my little local ballet studio, that’s it. There’s no more. Then you’re going to go be a professional ballerina or you’re done. But there’s no like if you’re a 48 year old woman who wants to start ballet, come here. That’s not a thing because that doesn’t happen. There’s no demand for that. 

Jody: Right. Yeah. Because even the little things, they’re not new to us anymore. Like we have so many conveniences. You think of trying to drive somewhere. Before you would have to like ask your neighbor or, heaven forbid, get out a paper map. Like when we’re trying to go somewhere for the very first time, it’s not a new thing that we’re going to have to stop and maybe ask directions and focus and really pay attention. We just type it into our phone. If we miss the turn, Siri’s going to reroute us, and we’ll get there. 

So I think that big things definitely, but I think it’s the little things daily aren’t new and challenging to us as well. So that we’ve lost that comfort of discomfort. It’s so unfamiliar to us that now when it comes up, it’s very uncomfortable. 

As you know and as you talk about, emotions we’re not used to feeling, we reject and our body sees as dangerous. That’s why when someone gives you a compliment, feeling that pride and joy, we label it “positive”, it feels terrible. We try to deflect it because we’re not used to feeling that. It’s the same with these micro-discomforts. We’re not used to feeling not in the know or uncertain or like we’re not self-sufficient. Like we can’t figure it out. So when we do feel that it feels even bigger than what it really is.

Jody: That’s so good. I feel like this has a lot to do with willingness to be vulnerable too. Like even just having to pull over and ask directions is a little bit vulnerable. It’s asking for help. It’s talking to a stranger. You don’t know how they’re going to respond. Because we don’t have to do that with little things, it’s really hard to do with big things. I’m sorry, I’m not very good at this. Could you help me figure it out? Or sorry, I messed that all up because I’m brand new here. I don’t know what I’m doing.

Lindsay: Yes, yes. 

Jody: Ah, man.

Lindsay: Exactly. 

Jody: It’s so good. Yet, I know when I coach on this, and tell me what your experience has been. But I feel like when I’ve coached people on this, they say I’m afraid of looking dumb, or I don’t want to make a mistake. I don’t want to burden other people. A big part of it comes down to our fear of what they will think. I don’t want to bother people. I’m afraid that they’ll think I don’t know what I’m talking about. They’ll think whatever negative thing about me. 

Yet, when the tables are turned, when there’s a new person at something that you’re already good at. I don’t know about you, but I do get annoyed sometimes with the new person that’s trying to pretend like they already know what they’re doing. But I am not at all annoyed. I have nothing but compassion and I want to help the person that says I’m so sorry. I’m new. I don’t know how to do this.

Lindsay: Yes. 

Jody: Right?

Lindsay: Yes. It’s so true. Because we know when you’re new, you’re not supposed to know how to do it. So if the person isn’t vulnerable enough to admit that, that’s when we’re like wait. I know you don’t know how to do this. You know you don’t know how to do this. But we’re miscommunicating here or you’re trying to hide it. Let’s just be real and honest. We all want the same thing. I’m here to help you learn how to do this. Yeah.

Jody: We love those because we love to help each other. We love to feel like the expert. I will help you because I know how to do this. So it’s just so interesting how the thing our brains are afraid of. I’m like what if you just admitted that you’re new, you don’t know how to do it. You’re going to make mistakes. They’re like oh, then they would think this, that, and the other. I’m like would they though? Like most people, most like normal, healthy, functioning adults. Do you think that? No, it’s the total opposite.

Lindsay: Yeah. Yeah. It’s fascinating. I also think it comes down to do you like yourself? Because we know logically, people are always going to think things about us, whether we’re new or not. Like, I look at a lot of my clients. They’re in a work setting. They’re like oh, I’m going to get fired, or I’m going to get in trouble. They worry from kind of a livelihood standpoint. 

But I’m like it really comes down to if they like themselves or not. I use the example, I’m a terrible speller. In fact I got the best email, I might have to print it out. I was like oh, I’m an idiot. I published a podcast last week, and it was about if your team’s struggling with low morale, but I spelled morale wrong. It was like low morale. I was like this is great.

Jody: If your team is struggling with low morals.

Lindsay: Yeah. That’s awesome. I published it everywhere. I was like oops. The nicest client was like hey Linds. I think you spelled this wrong. I was like for sure I did. But like, I know that I’m not a great speller. A lot of times, I have things in place, and I catch it, and I do my very best. There’s a lot of people that I’m sure judge me for that. They have every right to it. 

I’m like yeah, you’re right. I’m bad at it. But I don’t judge myself for it. So I’m okay with them being right about that opinion. I’m just like yeah, sometimes I get it wrong, but I’m really good at fixing it. I’ve got a lot I’m doing. I’m trying to juggle. I’m doing the best I can. I like me at the end of the day. I did my best.

Jody: How do you do that, Lindsay? Because that’s what people tell me all the time. Okay. I know that. Like I wouldn’t judge someone else for having weaknesses, but how do I stop criticizing and beating up myself?

Lindsay: I mean, that’s like the golden question, and I’m not perfect at it to be honest.

Jody: If you could just tell us that, this will be the last podcast we ever publish.

Lindsay: Yeah, right? I think I would be more successful than you if I knew that.

Jody: No, but you probably have some ideas of things.

Lindsay: Honestly, a lot of it, for me, has been always trying to make things it’s not about me. It’s not about me. I truly believe my worth and my value and my humaneness I had nothing to do with. I can’t make myself any better. I also can’t make myself any worse because my worth doesn’t come from me. It doesn’t come from my production, from my output, what I create, what I do. I genuinely believe that in my core.

Like, in the LDS faith like I believe I am a child of God. So a lot of times, I’m doing my best. I’m always like I kind of just give it to God. I’m like I stayed really close and check in and I’m like where do I need to keep working? What’s not working that I need to fix? The rest I’m like oops, can you help out here? I can’t do this. 

As a single mom running a business, working with kids, trying to be healthy, helping with my family, involved in church. I know it’s not possible for me to do it. I don’t want to give up the things I want to do. I like having more things I want to do the time to do it. So I have to be willing to just know it has nothing to do with me. I really believe that in my core. 

My successes, my wins, they’re not me. Yes, I showed up. Yes, I did the work. But I’m just here as a child of God trying to do my very best. So who am I to judge God for not doing his best? I don’t believe he made a mistake with me. I’ve made a lot of big mistakes. 

Jody: That’s good. I want to say this too because I know you personally, obviously, pretty well. I think one of the things that helps you and me, we tend to think similarly about a lot of things, is that we have a good sense of humor. I really do think that goes a long way. That we try not to let anything get too serious and heavy in our minds. When you can keep things light and you can find, like life is funny. People are funny. 

Lindsay: Yeah, they really are.

Jody: You know, like yeah. You will sometimes be like oh yeah. Like remember it was Christmas Eve. Lindsay was supposed to host Christmas Eve dinner. That’s the day that she had a plumbing problem that was leaking through the lights in her basement. Long story short, she did not host Christmas Eve dinner.

In the middle of it, you were like overwhelmed and stressed and everything. But then like right after you’re just like laughing. Like, of course that happened. Of course, my whole basement room is destroyed, and it happened on Christmas. You’ve got to try to lighten up. Because in the end, nobody was hurt. 

Lindsay: I even got a new Christmas ornament. I made an ornament with the broken pipe so I can remember every Christmas. 

Jody: You did? That’s awesome. That’s what I mean. You’ll hang it on your treat, and you’ll laugh about it later. I think that being that way about your life in general. I’ve seen you handle what could be to a lot of people really crushing, heavy situations. It’s not that you don’t get frustrated or stressed or whatever. But then you’re able to step back and be amused by it all. 

I think that when you can look at life that way, you can look at yourself that way too. You can like still strive to be your best and be disappointed at times, but also just like yep, there I go again messing that up. Totally messed that up, and just lighten it all up a little. 

Jody: I see a lot of that in you too. We’ve talked about this of we have that similar nature of being able to, like we’ve both been through some big heavy things. I mean, one day we could have a really good reality TV show. But yeah, there is humor to a lot of it. That’s a really good point. I think it’s realizing this is just one day in the big picture of things, right?

We were able to kind of stay present and focused in the moment and still see the humor and not let our brains get carried away with the doom and gloom of what if, what if, what if. We’re just like I don’t know. I’ll figure it out then. Because I think also in various aspects of our lives, you and I have kind of been the natural default leader to do things. I even see this. 

We go on family vacation, and we’re like what are we doing for dinner? I’m like I don’t know. Let me call Jody and see we’re not afraid to make it up. Because if we’re wrong, we’re like oops, my bad. We can go and correct it. But I think that helps keep the lightness of it that we can kind of lead and keep moving forward.

Jody: Yeah, that’s true. So I’m just trying to anticipate what people’s questions might be about impostor syndrome and the things that I hear when people say I think I’m having impostor syndrome. There’s this fear of like, and we’ve spoken to this a little bit, but I just want to make sure we really close the loop on this. This fear of like people are going to think who does she think she is? 

Like, I see this especially with my entrepreneur clients when they’re trying to start a coaching business, for example? People are going to be like really? You’re going to be a life coach? Who do you think you are? Or you’re going to have a podcast now? Who do you think you are? 

Don’t you think that, I mean I never really felt that way personally. I’m trying to ask myself why. I think it’s partly because I’m pretty good about not putting people on pedestals, for the most part. There are certain celebrities and things that maybe in my mind I’m like whoa, she’s pretty important. 

But like, I look at other coaches who are more successful than me, or entrepreneurs who have bigger businesses than me, bigger following than me. In my mind, I haven’t elevated them to like they must have it all together. They must be better than me. They must be more perfect than me in certain ways. Like, I don’t elevate people in my mind. 

So therefore, when I attempt to do those same things, it’s not because I’m trying to elevate myself. You know what I mean? Like I know you didn’t struggle with that either. Right?

Lindsay: I think it’s a lot the same. I don’t believe it’s better one way or another. Like oh, this person is really famous, or this person is really successful, or they have so many followers. Yeah, it’s not putting them on a pedestal because I don’t believe in this fantasyland of oh, then you’ve arrived. Then it’s like amazing and wonderful. All of a sudden, you don’t have problems. You wake up skinny and refreshed and confident and excited for the day. 

I’m like all those people that we tend to put up on pedestals, they still struggle with the same things. I look at recently Taylor Swift has been all over. I think she’s amazing and brilliant and wonderful. I also am like I would never want to be her. You can’t go to the grocery store. You can’t do so many of these just normal things we do day in and day out. 

Yet she lives this, I’m sure, amazing lifestyle where she can do all sorts of cool things and have these amazing experiences. But I don’t actually believe her life is any better than mine or mine is any better than hers. Just the flavor of the fun part and the hard part is a little bit different. 

So while some people may think like who do you think you are, and kind of put them on that pedestal. We all have things that we shine bright in and that we’re really good at. We all have things that we struggle with. You can’t avoid that. You can’t out success your way from that.

Jody: You can’t earn your way to your own approval. There was a woman I was coaching today in one of I don’t remember which call because I’ve done so many this week. On one of my calls, this woman was saying she’s trying to make a certain amount of money in her business. I asked her why. 

She said one of the reasons, she had multiple reasons, and a lot of them were great reasons. But she said, I want to prove to myself that I could do it. I was like oh, doesn’t that sound like a good reason? But let’s think about it. Why do you have to prove anything to yourself? Why do you have to earn through your achievements, through your success, you’re trying to earn your own approval. 

This woman, by the way, already had a multiple six figure business. I was like you haven’t proven it yet? There’s no point at which you’re not going to keep looking forward going but I could be there. I could have done it faster, or I could have done it better. You just have to decide to approve of yourself right now. 

She wants to prove herself that she can do something. I’m like did you know you’re allowed to just believe you can do that even without doing it? You don’t have to prove it. You’re allowed to just go no, I can make millions of dollars in this business.

In fact, I recommend that you do. Just choose to believe that. Know that it’ll take you some time because you’re going to mess it up along the way. You’re going to have failures along the way. Still choose to believe it. Don’t do it to try to prove it. Just choose to believe it, and then just do it for fun. Just do it for fun, right. 

Lindsay: Yeah, I agree. I think that proving it is a really good point. I think that’s sometimes where the imposter syndrome comes in is you start to doubt yourself, can I do it? I look at I know my default is work. I feel much more successful and get a little bit more dopamine highs from work than I do from being a parent. Because in that case, I’m like my kids are crazy. I don’t know. I’d rather just go work if I’m being honest. Right? 

So when I’m thinking okay, well I can believe that really easy in a work setting. But when I look at okay, as a mother, how do I not feel like I need to prove that I was a good mom today? That I was present, that I was focused, that I showed up. 

Again, I think it just comes down to having a little bit of grace for yourself. Just realizing I did show up. I only had 30% to give today as a mom, and I gave 30%. So I gave 100% of what I had. Just realizing.

Jody: That’s some good girl math. 

Lindsay: It’s totally my kind of math. I was like it was 75% off, which means it’s free. So I bought it.

Jody: Did you see that real on Instagram about girl math? 

Lindsay: Yeah, I felt very seen. I loved it.

Jody: Me too. I was like I do girl math. 

Lindsay: Yeah, I am a believer. I can buy into that program. It’s just knowing the only thing. It’s just constantly working. We don’t need to prove anything. All we’re asked is to just show up and do our best. To try to remove the human judgment of what is our best. I’ve had some days where my best is terrible, but that was literally the best I could do in that moment. I did it. Other days I’m my best is a little bit better. 

But it’s this constant evaluation of us wanting to put ourselves in a bucket of like did I do enough? Did I hit the checkmark? Again, that’s where I’m just like maybe it goes back to what you’re saying of that humor. I’m always like well put another quarter in the therapy job for my kids today. Like I just I’m trying my best. I don’t have any more to give than that. So I’m going to keep at it.

Jody: I know some people listening might be thinking well, isn’t that just abdicating your responsibility? Like it’s not okay to not try to be a better mom or whatever. But I think you know one of the things that we learned from our teacher, Brooke Castillo, that has changed my life so much is just giving yourself permission to be not good at it. Whether it be as a mother, as an entrepreneur, as a new employee at a company, new in your church calling. 

When you can give yourself permission to be not good at it because what’s the alternative? You are going to be not good at it at times. So you might as well give yourself permission then that actually opens you up to becoming curious about the parts that are challenging, become curious about where you fell short, which is the best way to then improve upon those areas. So it’s totally ironic but being okay with being not good at it is the way you get better at it, not the other way around. 

Feeling bad about it, shaming yourself, feeling guilty of being embarrassed causes you to want to hide and not look at the areas where you’re falling short, which minimizes your ability to improve. So this isn’t just about complacency and oh well, throw our hands up in the air. We always are striving to continue to grow and evolve, but not because it will make you a more valuable person because then you can love yourself. You’ve got to love yourself and recognize your value now. Then you will grow and evolve much more effectively in the end. 

Lindsay: There’s no such thing as imposter syndrome. It’s not a thing. 

Jody: I love that so much. Okay, so instead of bike face, we just started saying I’m riding a bike. Although, I love that so much. I feel like I’m going to call people out a lot on bike face now that you said that.

Lindsay: At our next family dinner I’m going to be like what’s up bicycle face?

Jody: Bicycle. It wasn’t bikes back then. Congrats to that woman who got rid of that statement because I’d never heard it. So she did her job well. But instead of imposter syndrome, what are we going to say then? I’m new. 

Lindsay: Yeah, I’m learning. 

Jody: I’m new. I just taught this in a confidence course, but confidence is embracing all of yourself, your strengths and your weaknesses. So confidence isn’t look how good I am at this. Confidence is hey, I’m really good at this part. I’m terrible at this part. I’m going to need some help, or I’m going to need some patience while I figure it out. That’s confidence. So there’s no more imposter syndrome. There’s just I’m new, and it’s uncomfortable. Yeah.

Lindsay: I’m at the beginning part of growing. I’m new. Totally pull the new kid card as often as you can. 

Jody: Because the truth is we all love the new kid, especially when they just admit it.

Lindsay: We really do, and you’re rooting for them. You’re like come on, you’re doing such a good job. 

Jody: It makes the not new people feel like champs. So it’s a win all the way around. Just be new. Be new. So good. Okay, sorry. I just thought of one final thing. With entrepreneurs, they’ll often say well, how am I going to grow? How am I going to get clients and customers if I’m just admitting that I’m new, and I don’t know what I’m doing? Do you have any thoughts on that? Because I do if you don’t, but you go first. 

Lindsay: Always. You and I. We’re both like well, we could talk for hours. Yeah, it’s not about you. That’s when I’m like get over yourself and get out there and get to work. Go screw it up 500 times. Go try to help as many people as you can until you figure it out. The reason you’re trying to build a business isn’t about you. If your reason is about you, you’re really going to struggle, and I haven’t seen a lot of those people succeed. Yes, it’s fun to grow. Yes, it’s fun to be successful. I’m not saying don’t have those goals. But if you’re in it for fame and success. 

Jody: For validation.

Lindsay: Yeah, to prove your worth, you’re going to go to some extreme unhealthy ways. You can hustle your way through there, but you will crash and burn eventually. It’s not sustainable. You’re not going to like who you are as you get there. I say get out of your way and be willing to go screw it up 500 times for the possibility of maybe helping one person.

I look at a lot of being an entrepreneur is not doing the craft that you’re good at. Right? As coaches, an eighth of my time is spent actually coaching. The rest is on working on my business. But I love the coaching part. It’s so fun. It’s so great to like connect with people and just love them and help them understand what’s going on in their brains. You need those moments to help you get through the other part. But if you’re struggling, I’d say it’s not about you and just go take as much action as you can.

Jody: That is always good advice for entrepreneurs. The other thing I’ll add is it is okay to be real about where you are. When I launch a new program or something. Again, it’s not the leading thing that I’m talking about. But I will say this is the first time I’ve taught this program in this way. So I’m going to be experimenting as we go, and you’re going to get a discounted rate from what I’m going to be charging next time because I’m going to need some flexibility to figure out how to make sure I help you achieve the result and telling you what I can achieve. 

So I don’t have to be confident in my program if I’ve never run this program. I can be honest about the fact that this is new. I’m going to be experimenting with it. I might change it up in the middle if I see that it’s not giving you what I promised I would give you. People love that. They want to hear that. 

But I can still be confident that I know I’m going to show up and take care of you. So you’re like putting confidence in your honesty and your effort and your willingness to make it right. When you’re transparent with people about that, they actually love it. 

Like why do we go to the Paul Mitchell School to get a facial where people are learning? Because we want the discount. We know that somebody’s supervising them. They’re going to make it right. So we’re okay with the people making mistakes along the way. We should go there, by the way, to the Paul Mitchell School. It’s right down the street. Get a facial. 

Lindsay: I’m in. I’m in. 

Jody: Yeah. Do they still do that? I don’t know. I used to do that in high school.

Lindsay: I don’t know. They should. Yeah, we’re going to check on that.

Jody: Anyway. Okay, just saying. All right, Lindsay, you’re so amazing. I love you so much. Where can people learn more from you, get more help from you? Tell us.

Lindsay: Yeah, the best place to go is I host a weekly podcast, More Than a Paycheck. You can also find me at LindsayLymanCoaching.com. Those are kind of the best places to follow me. I’m always out there sharing insights and trying to help people along the way. 

Jody: If somebody is like oh good, I’ve been looking for a coach to work with me one on one, or my spouse is looking for a coach to help navigate their job situation or whatever. Where can they learn more about hiring you?

Lindsay: Yeah, on my website. Go to LindsayLymanCoaching.com/chat. Let’s just start out with a coffee chat. Let’s just do an I connect and see what’s going on. What are you looking for? Is it the right fit? Get you some immediate help and some solutions on what you’re going on right there. We can kind of figure out a plan of action at that stage.

Jody: You can make it a coffee chat or a Diet Coke chat or a water with extra electrolytes chat, whatever you want. 

Lindsay: Yeah, I’m all in. I’m all in. I know. I love that I have hundreds of coffee chats, and I don’t drink coffee. 

Jody: You don’t drink coffee at all. 

Lindsay: No. They’re virtual. 

Jody: Everybody knows coffee means quick and informal. So yeah. Okay. Love it. Thanks for coming on, Lindsay. 

Lindsay: Yeah, thanks for having me.

Coaching changed my life. I’ve watched it change the lives of thousands of men and women since, but is it right for you? You’ll only know by giving it a try. Try it out today at JodyMoore.com/Trial.