294. Men and the Model with Jake Moore

I’m Jody Moore and this is Better Than Happy, episode 294: Men and the Model with Jake Moore.

Did you know that you can live a life that’s even better than happy? My name is Jody Moore. I’m a master certified life coach and a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. And if you’re willing to go with me I can show you how. Let’s go.

Hello everybody, welcome to the podcast. I had so much fun recording today’s episode because my guest is my husband, Jake Moore. I don’t know why I haven’t had Jake on the podcast before now but sometimes I’m a little slow. What can I say? I’m a late bloomer in a lot of ways. But I asked Jake to come on. I didn’t actually even tell him what we were going to talk about so that was fun. What you’re going to hear though is a little bit about us and how we came to be working together and things in the business. But mostly what I hope you’ll get out of this is a male’s perspective on the model.

So, Jake is going to talk through some of his hesitations or reservations about all of the work that I do as a coach and all of the things that I talk about here on the podcast and how he thinks about it today. We’re going to talk about how it fits in with our religion, our Testimony of Jesus Christ and our belief in the Restored Gospel. And we have some fun along the way, because you know me, I like to have fun.

So anyway, I think this will be a really power episode for all of you, but especially if you happen to be a male and you have some reservations or questions. I hope that this will help you hear these things from a male perspective. So here we go, here’s my conversation with my lovely husband, Jake.

                                                                                                                   

Jody Moore: Hi Jake Moore.

Jake Moore: Hey, Jody Moore.

Jody Moore: How’s it going? Thanks for joining me today.

Jake Moore: Of course.

Jody Moore: I can’t believe I haven’t had you on before now.

Jake Moore: I figured before 300 episodes. That’s good.

Jody Moore: Tell us a little bit about you first. Who are you?

Jake Moore: I’m your husband, born and raised in Northern California. And I went to BYU for college. And then went down to Southern California where we met and lived there for a while.

Jody Moore: And then the dream began.

Jake Moore: The dream began, lived the beach life for about eight or nine years and then slowly worked our way back up here to Washington.

Jody Moore: I kind of miss the beach life, I won’t lie.

Jake Moore: I like how every time we go down there our first words are, “Why don’t we move back here?” And then after driving somewhere we’re like…

Jody Moore: Then I’m like, “Oh, wait. This is why.”

Jake Moore: Exactly, like no, we’re good.

Jody Moore: Tropic and a few other things. Alright, so what’s the worst part about being married to me first of all? You can be honest. This is also like a counseling session for us.

Jake Moore: Right out of the gates. Let’s see. Okay, what’s the question again? What’s the worst part about being married to you?

Jody Moore: Yeah. I mean I think people just see me happy and positive. Let’s just tell them the truth.

Jake Moore: Getting into my car after you’ve driven it.

Jody Moore: Yeah, because my legs are so short and his legs are so long.

Jake Moore: It’s usually when I get into your car I’m anticipating it so I can adjust the seat before. But if you’ve driven my car and I’m not expecting it.

Jody Moore: Yeah, it’s true.

Jake Moore: It’s a bit of a shock getting in.

Jody Moore: Are you 6’3 or 6’4?

Jake Moore: 6’3.

Jody Moore: I always say you’re 6’4. Anyway, he’s tall and I’m only 5’3 so I come up to his armpit and we make a darling couple. I’m glad that’s the worst part though. What about me in the morning? I’m cranky in the morning.

Jake Moore: Yeah, you’re not a morning person. Even now after – what, going on 16 years, I still sometimes – I’m like, “Did I do something to make you mad?” And I have to remember, you’re just not a morning person. Where I feel like I am a morning person. I’ve always woken up early. And I’ve always kind of – I mean I might be tired but I’m always kind of up and ready to go and get gone. And sometimes in the mornings you’re not that person and I always kind of think, oh boy, what did I do?

Jody Moore: He’s being really nice. I just forget to smile and be polite. And until I – I have to have my bath or my shower, and get dressed, and eat a little breakfast. Then I come alive, right?

Jake Moore: Yeah. Well, as like Ali said.

Jody Moore: At our wedding lunch, I remember it was.

Jake Moore: Yeah, her advice to me was, “Let her run and make sure she’s well fed.”

Jody Moore: That’s true, I used to get hangry. I don’t get hangry very often anymore, have you noticed?

Jake Moore: Yeah.

Jody Moore: I think that the healthier eating habits I have and the less Diet Coke is helping with that. Thanks Brad Jensen for helping our marriage.

Jake Moore: Thank you Brad.

Jody Moore: Alright. I just want to say that I’m super lucky to be married to Jake. He’s a great guy. He helps out around the house with the kids. He’s better with the kids than I am.

Jake Moore: I don’t know if that’s true.

Jody Moore: He’s a hard worker. He’s Elders Quorum president in the ward and anyway, just all-around great guy. And I didn’t even tell you what we’re going to talk about today. Isn’t that fun?

Jake Moore: I know, that’s why your first question. I was like, “Wow.”

Jody Moore: Well, I think that there are a few questions people are going to have that we should answer about us working together and stuff like that. But then I really want to talk about men and the model a little bit. So let’s start with – again some of the questions people might have. So we work together. We own this business together. We’re business partners, yeah?

Jake Moore: Yes.

Jody Moore: And has it been three years?

Jake Moore: It’s gone. It was the end of 2017, so three and a half years.

Jody Moore: So going on four years we’ve been doing this together. Do you want to tell a little bit about why we made that decision and what that transition was like?

Jake Moore: Yeah. Well, I had been working as an administrator for skilled nursing homes and it was a great career. It was demanding. And kind of the last couple of years I’d kind of been looking for something else. We moved up here for a job that I took, it wasn’t too long into that I really realized that yeah, I definitely needed something different. So it really kind of started with me just joking around. I’d come home from work and be like, “Hey, Jo, if you need an assistant to continue Diet Cokes.”

Jody Moore: I’m your guy.

Jake Moore: “I’ll do it for you.” Yeah, it got to the point where I mean I had no idea what the financial status was of her business.

Jody Moore: Because I just kept that to myself, spent the money myself.

Jake Moore: And so not that it was anything that I was stressed about, or worried about, that I didn’t know it, but I was just kind of operating on based on what I was bringing in. And then one time I was joking about it and she said, “Okay, let’s make it happen. When do you want to start?” So she had been doing some discussing with Brooke and some others I think about it, and kind of already made the decision that it was something that it was time there that she needed some additional help. And I was looking for a change and it worked out great.

Jody Moore: Yeah. And I want to backup for just a minute. And I think I’d been building this business for, I want to say maybe three years at that point before then roughly. Let’s backup to when I decided to go to coach training. I’d been let go from my corporate job. You were working in skilled nursing. You had a good job making a good living. Losing my job was a cut to our income but we realized we can make some adjustments and we can live off of your salary. So I didn’t ‘have to’ go back to work.

And so I was just kind of like, “Oh my gosh, what’s going to happen now? Am I going to be a stay-at-home-mom? I don’t know if I can do that.” But we were in the, you know, I was pregnant with our third child. There was a lot going on. And when I said to you, “Hey, I want to go to coach training”, and it didn’t cost as much back then as it does now. But it was still for us a significant investment and it wasn’t like we just had that money laying around.

And I didn’t say, “And I’m going to build a business and make tons of money. And it’s going to be awesome.” Because I honestly didn’t even have that thought, I just felt really drawn to Brooke and her work and then this program opened up. So what were your thoughts at that point when I said, “Do you care if I spend a lot of money on this thing?”

Jake Moore: I mean it was a long time ago. I remember it didn’t seem to me, to me it was just like of course, if you want to do it. I mean you’ve always been supportive of me. And I think both of our parents, not the same parents, but my parents and her parents, they both raised us to where they were really supportive of what we wanted to do. At the time it was a lot of money but it didn’t really seem anything that we couldn’t do.

And so I think with the amount of change in your life where pretty early in the marriage I realized, you go into a marriage and you always kind of have these expectations of what you think it’s going to look like. And pretty early into it I realized she loves to work. And this is going to be something that she wants to continue to do. So I knew that was just a huge change when you were laid off. And it was like this is something that I think would be, if she really wants to do that I think it’s great.

Jody Moore: And I do think that’s part of it, and this is what I’m always trying to help coach my clients around when they say, “Well, I want to do this thing but my husband’s not onboard.” And I’m not discounting the fact that you are very supportive. But I do think that my making the decision ahead of time, this is where I need to go. I don’t know why, I don’t know what I’m going to do with it. Maybe I’m not going to do anything. Maybe it’s just for my own self-development, if you will.

But there’s a difference between me coming to you saying, “Hey, honey, I kind of want to make this decision but I don’t know. I’m kind of scared. It’s a lot of money. I mean maybe we shouldn’t.” And not that you wouldn’t still have been supportive but you might have felt different than when I’m like, “Listen, I feel really called to this. I’ve got to do this. Can we figure out a way? Are you onboard?” It’s just a little different don’t you think?

Jake Moore: Yeah. And I guess it’s kind of hard to speak to that just because it’s not how you are. That’s not how you presented it.

Jody Moore: Well, I mean it’s interesting. I just recently did an episode on marriage dynamics. And we talk about this a lot, about how a lot of couples that we see who we love and adore, we notice that there’s a parent child type dynamic. And there’s either the wife asking the husband permission, or the husband asking the wife permission to go hang out with their friends or spend money. And we both just have agreed that we don’t want that dynamic in our marriage. We want to view each other as equal partners and as both confident decision-makers.

Jake Moore: Right. But at the same time at least from my perspective is, you don’t go overboard on that and I don’t think I do either. We’re always asking, “Hey, I’d like to go do this with my friends. Or can I go on this trip? Or can I do that?” And it’s the same thing as you do too. And I think there’s still that mutual respect of we have kids to raise. And right now some days we have four different schools and pick up times to go to that we have to juggle.

Jody Moore: Like today. Yeah, you’re right. It’s not just I am capable of making my own decision. It’s, and I equally value your input. It’s respect on, I respect myself and I respect your opinion. And that does matter. That makes a difference. Okay, so anyway, so I kind of started building this coaching practice just because I loved coaching. And I thought you know what, this fun. I kind of want to see if anyone else wants to hear about it. In the beginning when I was building it I personally didn’t have any idea that we were going to get to where we are today. What did you think?

Jake Moore: Honestly, in my career path at that point I was happy that you enjoyed doing it. I was so consumed with what was going on in there, I can’t say that there was much beyond that I’m glad that you’re enjoying doing what you’re doing and I knew that you were helping people. And a lot of people were giving you really good feedback.

Jody Moore: So overall you kind of knew this was a good thing even if it was just good for me, right?

Jake Moore: Yeah.

Jody Moore: Yeah. I do think trusting ourselves maybe a little more to follow this is a good thing. It’s good for me. It’s helping people. Where that’s going to lead, we can let go of trying to figure that out so much sometimes. But just to kind of wrap up this part I’ll just add too, my perspective of when we decided to bring you into the business. We did both kind of joke about it for a long time especially because skilled nursing was a great career for you. But by the end you were just burned out and you needed a change and I could see that.

And so I really did think and pray about it. And when he says I talked to Brooke about it, what he means is I got coached by Brooke about it just to get my head in the right place. I wanted to make that decision from a clean healthy space because I knew that it would be awesome in many ways and it would be challenging in many ways. And so I still remember that day that I finally decided if Jake’s onboard, I think this could be a good thing. And I came to you and said that.

And you said, “Yeah, I mean we could make a cut in our spending and we could adjust our budget and live off less.” And I was like, “Oh no, we’re not going to live off less.”

Jake Moore: And I still at that point had no idea what she was bringing in.

Jody Moore: Yeah. Which is not because I was hiding it, we just – you were just like you said, busy in your career and you had enough on your mind that, you know, I had a bookkeeper and I was like, “No, I had him run the numbers.” And we could – it wasn’t like we had tons of money. But I was like, “We could cover your salary”, which was a healthy salary that you were making out of the business. And we’re just going to grow from there. So anyway, how’s it been? Tell me.

Jake Moore: It’s been good. And I just kind of wanted to add on to what you’re saying too is I think is part of it, at that point I had also kind of understood for myself too that – just kind of that saying of wherever you go there you are. Whereas I didn’t want to also join something that it was just a change from what I was tired at as well. As you were talking with Mark and getting coached by Brooke, not knowing that that was also something as I was joking about it, I was also looking at, well, if something like this does happen, it’s not just to get out of this.

It wants to be something that’s good because even – and I guess maybe to start answering the question you just asked is how it’s been. I mean definitely for me there was about a six to nine month transition where a lot of, I guess, habits that I had or just ways of thinking things, they still caught up to me in the new situation. And yeah, every once in a while something still sneaks in. It was great but there definitely were challenges.

Jody Moore: Yeah. And it wasn’t like I had had a person doing what you started doing before.  So we didn’t even know what your role was going to be, we were defining that. You were learning a lot of things about the business. And we were trying to figure out, how do we navigate being business partners and then being spouses, which was still sometimes, you know, comes up.

But I think for me, and I don’t know that we’ve discussed this outright necessarily but I’ll just tell you what helps me in my head is to remember there are certain parts of the business that I have to own and make the decisions on. And I discuss it with you but I sort of view it as if it came right down to it I would have the final say on this thing. And then there are other things that I give to you to own and have the final say on. And it’s not challenging because we tend to agree most of the time.

But I think to have sort of those defined roles which we could still probably do a better job of defining it even more clearly. But I think we both kind of understand the parts that you own which is the backend, the customer support, the tech, managing the finances really when it comes right down to it. And my role is more the front of the house, kind of the vision, the marketing and sales. And I don’t know, I feel like for me that’s helpful to keep clear in my mind.

Jake Moore: Yeah. Well, and that’s something that I’ve looked at too is as I look at this, I mean we’re partners in the business but I also do look at it in the sense that it’s like this is your business. This is your vision. This is your experience. This is your baby. I will always differ. Yeah, the backend stuff, all the nuts and bolts and stuff like that, we’ll have a discussion, but whenever you’re like of like, hey, for advertising or marketing, or whatever, I want to do this. Fantastic, that’s great.

Jody Moore: You’re so good. But I do like – you’re a really good sounding board for me because sometimes I just want to run really fast and you’re really good at – I mean you have a lot of experience and everything to stop and think through, well, we need to make sure that we have checked with our attorney on this thing and that we’ve thought through this. And that we’ve researched legally what can we do. I’m like, “Yeah, we need to do all that don’t we?” So I think it makes us kind of a good pair.

Jake Moore: Yeah. And I think, I mean especially being in the previous career that I was at, I mean there definitely – I might be a little bit overboard on that side of it, of like, “Wait a minute, we’ve got to make sure that everything is lined up so nothing bad happens.”

Jody Moore: Yeah. But I feel like we’re getting better too at finding the balance of the areas where I can say, “Now, listen, we’re going to think big in this way.” And then there are other areas where we need to be realistic and practical and it’s kind of fun. So I wanted to talk about men and the model for a minute. So one of the common things I hear from people – well, I have many people that say, “My husband loves this and he listens to your podcast.”

And we have men in Be Bold and everything. But I also hear equally as often, “My husband just thinks this is ridiculous, or selfish, or kind of out there.” I have taught you the model, I should say, before you ever worked in the business, when you were in corporate I shared it with you a little bit. You had listened to, sometimes I would play Brooke’s coaching calls in the car or something and I exposed you to it just a little bit, only when you were open to it.

Can you tell me, what were your first impressions? Did you ever have those kinds of thoughts like I don’t know about this, or it seems selfish, or it seems like it goes against our religion or any – I don’t know that you were skeptical, but did you have any question marks kind of?

Jake Moore: Yeah. I think – I mean I had a lot of question marks. I think – well, it sounds kind of selfish. I remember that I felt sometimes in looking at things at a surface level it sounded really – I don’t want to say selfish, but it just didn’t seem like it was a very let’s take care of those around us type of way of thinking. But I think the more that I listened to things the more that I understood it. I want to say the kind of the best – what helped me understand it was you had mentioned something about just saying how it’s just like housekeeping for your brain and for your thoughts.

And if you just leave your room and you don’t take any care of it, it’s probably going to start getting messy, whether it’s clothes, whether the bed’s not made. And things just kind of start getting cluttery and you bring new stuff in; you don’t let the – take old stuff out. Just as that clutter starts to happen then you just can’t operate and think as well and as I started looking in the context of that and then in the model thinking of just how circumstances are neutral.

And I know you talk to me sometimes just about – some of the examples you always use, the extremes when people are like, “Well, but somebody just died. That’s terrible.” And looking at it from that and kind of dissecting the extremes and seeing how they truly are neutral but it’s, what is the value that we give to it? And our thoughts that started to change were those questions that I had about, well, this seems like it might be kind of just selfish in the sense that well, I’m fine, I’m just going to worry about myself feeling good and everybody else can, you know, who cares.

That’s not at all what it is. It’s really just helping to clean up your thought process. And really I think be the best you which in turn allows you to be best for everybody else around you too, however it is that you show up for, whether it’s your family, or work friends.

Jody Moore: Can you share? Do you remember that one experience when you were still working in skilled nursing? And so you knew the model a little bit but you hadn’t listened to too much of it because you were just busy, and remember that nurse that came – I think she was a nurse. And she was having a lot of drama with some of the other staff. You don’t remember this story.

Jake Moore: I don’t remember it.

Jody Moore: I’ll start telling it and you interrupt me if it comes back. So I remember you coming home saying that you were talking to one of your staff, I think it was a nurse. And she was just upset about something going on. And you wrote the model down on a little scrap of paper from your pocket. And you showed her how, because she thinks these people don’t like her or whatever, that she’s creating all this drama and this problem for herself.

And you told me, you were like, “I don’t know if I did it right. But I kind of went through this with her. And she looked at me and she put her hand on the piece of paper and slid it across the table and picked it up and put it in her pocket. And she said “I’m keeping this.”” Do you remember that?

Jake Moore: I remember the nurse. I don’t remember that specific – I’m kind of remembering it. And that nurse was wonderful. I’ve tried reaching out to her in the past to see how she was doing.

Jody Moore: Well, she has the model now, so she’s doing amazing.

Jake Moore: She is a great nurse.

Jody Moore: But yeah, I mean it’s just – it’s always easier to see in other people than in ourselves. But I do think that when appropriate, in a situation like that when she’s coming to you wanting help that just trying it out. You’re not going to break anybody. And it helps you gain a deeper understanding of it. So I was really proud of you.

Jake Moore: I think what’s funny is still sometimes in talking with some of my friends that I keep in contact with from California. They’ll ask me questions like – and I think this is going back to what we were talking about before is some of the thoughts. And I think when you first start hearing this and you think it’s selfish is because part of it is you think that it’s easy to misunderstand that the model’s to be used for somebody else.

Jody Moore: What do you mean by that?

Jake Moore: I want them to see that…

Jody Moore: That their thought is the – that they’re the problem.

Jake Moore: That they’re the problem, exactly, as opposed to yeah, just like you said, when somebody comes and says, “Hey, I need some help with this.” But it’s like, you know, I think of the example, help my wife understand that she’s not being nice to me or something like that. Can you get my wife to think about this?

Jody Moore: Yeah. That’s so tempting for us to do is like this is so powerful, can you fix my kid with this? Can you change my spouse? Can you tell my boss about this? And that’s where it is a focus on self. And what we mean by that is not just do what you want, make yourself happy, who cares about anyone else. That’s not what we’re saying. We’re saying you can only control you but actually that’s all you need to. Really good news, you’re creating your current experience. And we do care about other people, we care about their feelings.

I was just talking to some of the coaches yesterday in our advanced certification group about this. When someone’s used to people pleasing and they’re just doing things to try to keep everyone around them happy at their own expense. And we start teaching them, you’ve got to tell the truth. You’ve got to understand what you want and be there for you. And often that gets misinterpreted both by the client and the spouse of I don’t care what you want. I only care what I want.

And what we were talking about yesterday is no, we’re not coaching sociopaths, this isn’t therapy. We’re coaching healthy adults which means what I want – and the example in the coaching we were talking about was this woman wanting to go play volleyball with her friends or something and her husband didn’t like it. So what she wants is to play volleyball. And also what she wants is for her husband to be happy and her husband to ideally support her, or understand, or sometimes to stay home from the things she wanted to go to because her husband prefers it or needs her.

So we take all of that into account. We take into account what we desire and what we want, but also what the people we love desire and what they want. And it’s just about decisions, like I would love for just you and the kids, and everyone to just be happy all the time.

Jake Moore: You just want us to all get along.

Jody Moore: I just want us to all get along, that’s all I want for Mother’s Day, everyone to get along. Anyway, okay, so was there any point that you remember – I mean what was it that helped shift your understanding and your perspective of it a little bit?

Jake Moore: Well, I think it’s just the more I heard other people getting coached or listen to the podcasts, that’s – when you see the real life applications that’s when it really kind of started to become more clear. I remember one of the times it was super clear for me, and I was still – there was still certain things that I thought I don’t know if it really applies for this. But we had done a live event. That was that first bootcamp that we did over at the bright red room, Jody’s favorite room.

Jody Moore: Yes, the red room. Why is it all red? It’s so angry in here.

Jake Moore: And it was a three day. And you were just kind of getting started. And you kind of lay out kind of what your expectations were for the next few days as far as what you’re going to be presenting and how you were going to show up for everybody. And you kind of just said, “Hey, does anybody have any questions?”

And the first person that got up, talked about a pretty serious and heavy trauma that she had experienced in her life. And she was just talking about how coaching had allowed her to move forward from that. It was really powerful because I mean it was – we didn’t ask. We didn’t know what she was going to say. And it was just one of those things, I think a lot of people see this and see coaching and hear coaching and they think it’s really great for problems when somebody in the book club is upset or if, you know.

Jody Moore: We have real problems.

Jake Moore: Yeah, we have real problems. Somebody in the family lost – the husband lost a job, or the wife lost a job, or the kid’s struggling with something, with drugs or alcohol.

Jody Moore: Infidelity or whatever, yeah.

Jake Moore: And this lady, I mean she shared probably one of the worst traumas that you could imagine. And it wasn’t – and I think the other thing that it illustrated is sometimes people I think misunderstand coaching for kind of whitewashing or glossing over problems, trying to force yourself to think it’s okay, it’s fine. And it isn’t. I mean if it’s not used properly, just like anything, it could be used to suppress. But that I think was probably one of the moments where I thought, wow, that was pretty incredible.

Jody Moore: Yeah, that’s awesome. I don’t even remember exactly that moment but I do remember that event. And I love that you said, like listening to coaching because for me too that’s where I feel like I’ve made the most just shifts for myself even, is just listening to people get coached over and over again. Like you said, you see the application of it. And I remember too being in the car with you playing some coaching calls.

And I remember you being like, “Oh, I think that’s what I used to do in my job”, or whatever. And I was like, “I’m not saying, but you said it.”  And we all do though. We all just have human brains.

Jake Moore: And I know for me too is I’m not mature enough to be really open to feedback when it’s directly at me.

Jody Moore: Yeah, it’s true. It’s easier to hear that way through someone else.

Jake Moore: Yeah, exactly. And so for me hearing other people definitely it’s much easier because it’s almost kind of a soft step of being able to say, “Hey, this is your problem.” Because nobody’s pointing it at you, nobody directing at you and saying, “Hey, this is what I’m observing what you’re doing.” It just allows you to – at least that’s what I’ve experienced.

Jody Moore: Don’t you think too that there’s something about the model that it’s nice how it’s so linear and simple? Obviously there’s layers of understanding and application of it. But it’s simple enough to understand. I feel like not to grossly generalize, but men who might have a more logical linear way of thinking, once they really come in and learn it, I think really actually love it.

Jake Moore: Well, and I know you’re going to love this comparison because you love math and science.

Jody Moore: I love math so much.

Jake Moore: So the model it really is, is kind of linear but – and it’s mainly been in the live events where we have it that I’m hearing more of it. But it’s so simple and linear yet at the same time the deeper you understand it, the way that I see that you use it and you’re able to circle back. And it’s incredibly simple. And it made me think of when I was in high school I took a physics class and they get to the basic physics equation of force equals mass times acceleration. There’s three variables. How simple is that? I remember breezing through it in high school.

Well, when I get to college and college physics uses F equals MA, the same simple formula. But the application of it was incredibly more complex in how those variables work together. I mean I remember working through problems 10, 15 times and getting different answers every single time, none of them being the right one for the simple stupid equation of F equals MA.

And not saying that the model is complex but the way – the deeper you understand it you can use it to analyze and you can use it to work through those problems and those thought processes in so many different ways. And that’s where I bring it back to some of those live events where you would be coaching people and I’d always kind of play the, I think I know what you’re going to say next. And you would take it somewhere completely different. And it really would kind of blow my mind. But it completely follows that model and it fits within that model.

And so a lot of times I kind of compare those to where it’s like there’s this really simple thing and if you understand it properly it can be tweaked and changed and still maintain the integrity of the model or the formula. But it works. You can use it to work to get some really amazing things out of it.

Jody Moore: What are your thoughts about this work that we do and our religion and the doctrine? I mean I think in the beginning you maybe had some – I don’t know if reservation’s the right word.

Jake Moore: I mean, and we’ve talked about the – I mean from a church standpoint, I mean we believe that our spirit, and our bodies, and our mind that we’re supposed to maintain a good health with all of those. And I think that this really addresses the mental, you know, not talking like if there’s a clinical issue. I mean that’s – clinical experts need to be involved for that. But I mean I think your own ability to recognize your thoughts and how you’re thinking about things, and minding your thoughts.

And I always had some questions about it and it’s always based on how – for me it’s always been how is it prioritized I mean. And I think one time we were talking about it and the best way that you helped clarify for me when we were talking about it is that it’s really outside God. God works outside of the model. It’s a human construct, the model of how do we understand this and how our thought processes work, and how we can solve problems. I think it’s a great tool to help monitor and maintain mental clarity and mental health.

But I think like anything whether it’s physical fitness, mental fitness or hobbies, whatever you do, I mean it’s all about priority and where do you place it in the eternal perspective.

Jody Moore: My sister, Natalie, who’s a coach, you know that, but we were talking about this idea that in the world of psychology, or thought work, or coaching, or whatever. When we start talking mental work, you can manipulate people. You can use these tools to gaslight people or to cause harm. I don’t think most of the people that I know necessarily have bad intentions ever. But also is there a line at which it crosses over into maybe this isn’t useful or healthy even?

And Natalie and I were just talking about how if you aren’t tethered to something, some higher belief system, whether that be a belief in God, a testimony of Jesus Christ, or just what it is for us, then it’s challenging to navigate. At what point does this cross the line? And Natalie and I were just talking about that, how having the Gospel, and the Testimony of Christ, and the knowledge that we have of the plan of salvation and all of that is a tether by which everything else gets checked. You know what I mean?

And I don’t know. For me that’s – because I do get a lot of questions from people like, “Aren’t you worried that you’re going to lose your faith, or that this is going to, you know, you’re going to intellectualize yourself out of the Gospel”, or something like that. And I really don’t worry about that because like you said, my Testimony of Christ is the priority. And that doesn’t mean that my Testimony of Christ is perfect. But I know that has to come first and then everything else gets filtered through that.

Jake Moore: Yeah. It reminds me, there is a BYU Devotional that I listened to a couple of weeks ago and it really stood out. And it was, I think she was a biologist. And she was talking about kind of the ongoing or age old ‘conflict of science and religion’. And it was really…

Jody Moore: It was so good.

Jake Moore: It was so good. So you’ve heard it too?

Jody Moore: Yeah. I’ll get the name and we’ll link it in the show notes because it was recent.

Jake Moore: It was really good. And one of the things, and I think that this kind of can apply to some of the things that she was saying in there. And she goes on to talk about how she would have these discussions with one of her professors who was an atheist and because well, science proves all of these things. She was talking about the faith side of it. It really, like you’re saying, your testimony is rooted in Christ and it doesn’t – your testimony doesn’t have to be perfect.

But at the same time you look at the spiritual experiences that you have that those are things that you can’t prove to other people. And faith is a very personal thing, and spirituality is a very personal thing that you can share your experiences with other people. But the knowledge that you get based off your personal experiences are yours and yours alone. Going back, I guess, to what you’re saying where some people might think, well, aren’t you afraid that you’re going to intellectualize your way out of this?

I mean here’s definitely, there’s a lot of people that do, they intellectualize their way out of activity and out of the church, not just ours, but religions all over the world.

Jody Moore: That’s right.

Jake Moore: But for me going back to this talk there is just such a clear line of the faith part isn’t something that you can really explain, those personal experiences that you have, and that connection that you have with Heavenly Father. I think being rooted in that, that’s the anchor, like we’ve always been taught. If you’re anchored in Christ and anchored in the Gospel, that’s where things are. And all of these other things, like President Hinckley says, looking for good in everything. There’s good everywhere.

We don’t have the monopoly on good. We have the priesthood and ordinances that allow us to return to Heavenly Father. But it doesn’t mean there isn’t good elsewhere in the world that we can bring and that we can use to help improve ourselves physically, spiritually, and mentally.

Jody Moore: Yeah, I love it. Alright, before we go, because I think we have to take a child to school or pick a child up from school.

Jake Moore: Sometimes we just don’t take them to school because there’s too many carpools.

Jody Moore: That’s true. We’re like, “He has a cough. He can’t come, Covid.” But before we go I was just thinking about the time when you were checking people in at a live event and somebody was like, “Now, who are you?” And I just want to make sure you remember what the standard answer is supposed to be now when people ask you that. Because they’re all there, they’re so excited to see me, which is ridiculous, but they’re giddy to see me.

Jake Moore: I have to add though, that was when I realized this has gotten really big because at the early events everybody would be like, “You must be Jake.”

Jody Moore: And then they stopped knowing who you are. But remember what the answer is when somebody says, “Now, who are you?”

Jake Moore: “I just slept with her.”

Jody Moore: Yeah, I sleep with her, that’s the answer we decided as business partners. Oh my gosh, thanks so much hun, you’re the best, I love you.

Jake Moore: I love you too.

                                                                                                                   

Who is your life coach? If you don’t have one I would be so honored to be your coach. I created a virtual coaching program called Be Bold that I want to invite you to join me in. We can address challenges, we can work on goals, and we can do it in so many different ways.

We have group coaching, individual private coaching, and online chats along with hundreds of hours of courses and content that I’ve created just for you. When you’re ready to really take what you’re learning on the podcast to the 10x level, then come check out Be Bold at JodyMoore.com/membership.