254. From Addiction to Nutrition with Brad Jensen

I’m Jody Moore and this is Better Than Happy episode 254: From Addiction to Nutrition with Brad Jensen.

Welcome to Better Than Happy. I’m your host, Jody Moore. I’m a mother to four children. I’m a huge Taylor Swift fan, and I’m a master certified life coach. I’m here to teach you how to manage your brain and manage your emotions so that you can create a life that’s even better than happy. Are you ready? Let’s go.

Hello, everybody. I am so excited to bring you this episode today. I don’t do a whole lot of guests, I am pretty selective about who I bring on the podcast. Brad Jensen is, he’s a nutrition coach, you’re going to learn all about him, he’s the host of The Key Nutrition podcast, which is fantastic, add it to your podcast subscribes. But I became a huge Brad Jensen fan just over the course of probably the last two months, as I started following him closer.

And I’m so happy that he came on the podcast and shared his story, I knew little bits of his story, but I really didn’t know his whole story until he shared it with me on the podcast. And I’m so excited for you guys to hear it. It’s quite frankly, an amazing and inspiring story. So he’s going to tell us his story and then we’re just going to talk for just a minute about nutrition. Don’t worry, we don’t get heavy, we’re not going to tell you to stop eating all the things that you want to eat.

But if you’re like me, it’s sort of a constant journey of getting my relationship with food and my body where I want it to be. I’m not there yet, I’ve got to say it. I’m not there yet. So I’m really excited for the things that Brad is going to teach you guys today. And without further ado, let’s take it away.

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Hello Brad Jensen.

Brad Jensen: Hello.

Jody Moore: Thanks for joining me today.

Brad Jensen: Thank you.

Jody Moore: This is super fun.

Brad Jensen: Yeah, I’m so honored.

Jody Moore: So, Brad is the host of The Key Nutrition podcast and are you the owner of the company?

Brad Jensen: Unfortunately or fortunately, one of the two, yeah.

Jody Moore: It’s somewhat, it’s 50/50, right?

Brad Jensen: That’s good, yeah.

Jody Moore: So is your company called Key Nutrition?

Brad Jensen: Yeah, so I’m the owner and operator of Key Nutrition, so.

Jody Moore: And tell us a little bit about what you do in your business.

Brad Jensen: So we do nutrition coaching, all things nutrition and fitness coaching. So currently it’s a kind of a one-on-one model, but that’s kind of expanding into more group coaching in the end of the year, but we do everything kind of accountability, application, of what changes to make. And then education behind the kind of how’s and why’s, really teaching people that kind of eat for, not only to get results, but sustainability, and practicality, and consistent. So all things nutrition coaching, it’s very personalized and individualized.

Jody Moore: So it’s nutrition coaching, which is not the same as personal training, you’re not in the gym with people helping them workout, or is there a component of that?

Brad Jensen: No, so we actually build the workout programs, so we have an app that’s pretty cool, that really dials it all in kind of teaching people about really trying to push themselves more in the gym, instead of us being there, right?

Jody Moore: Yeah, you don’t need someone standing by you counting your reps necessarily.

Brad Jensen: No. I personally trained for years in the beginning from 2003 to 2008, and I felt like I, in a way, kind of handicapped people.

Jody Moore: Oh, really?

Brad Jensen: Well, just like the minute I wouldn’t be there, they were like, “Oh, my workout sucked this week, but that’s why I was so looking forward to today with you.” And I’m like, “Well, so I don’t want to be the only reason you push hard in the gym is when I’m here because that’s an unsustainable model for you.”

Jody Moore: Yeah, people need to learn personal accountability, which I can attest to. I’ve had coaches I’ve worked with and then when I stop, same thing, I’m like, “Oh I did not learn how to be accountable to myself, I was only accountable to my coach.”

Brad Jensen: Exactly, yeah.

Jody Moore: Okay, that’s interesting, let’s rewind for a minute. I just want to share with my listeners the way I met you was you or someone on your team reached out to me, asking me to come on your podcast.

Brad Jensen: That was me, yeah.

Jody Moore: And this was like what, maybe six or eight months ago or something, the first time I came on your show. So I looked up your podcast and there’s a picture of Brad Jensen, which Brad and I couldn’t be more opposite, probably. He is this big muscly tattooed guy.

And it was clear by the title and cover of your podcast that this was like a nutrition, hardcore, health and fitness podcast. And I thought, I wonder why they want me to come on their show. I was seriously so confused at first. And then I came on your show and you were delightful, and your team is delightful, and I loved talking with you guys. And started paying a little more attention to what you do. You’re based in Utah, yeah?

Brad Jensen: Yeah, yeah.

Jody Moore: What part of Utah do you live in?

Brad Jensen: I live in South Jordan. My company is in Draper, so.

Jody Moore: Okay. And long story short, even though we’re pretty opposite I think we actually have a lot of really similar philosophies and we share a lot of the same themes and listeners, I think.

Brad Jensen: Yeah.

Jody Moore: Yeah?

Brad Jensen: Yeah. Well you know in that first cover of the podcast was very – I think I might have had my arms folded, it was very hardcore, so our new podcast cover is a little, right, you can still see I’m a tatted-up guy, but it’s a less imposing of a pose. And it says, “Nutrition Fitness Mindset.”

Jody Moore: I need to get my app updated.

Brad Jensen: Yeah, I think so.

Jody Moore: I think I have the old cover, I need to get the new cover, okay, that’s cool. But then I’ve got to admit, so I’ve been on your show twice now, which was so, I am so honored that you invited me on. And I started listening to your podcast, and you guys are so much fun to listen to, you and Michelle as well.

Brad Jensen: Thank you.

Jody Moore: Seriously, I listen to you guys at night when I can’t sleep, and we hangout. And I don’t know if I told you this, but as I heard you talking to Michelle, and it’s clear to me that you’ve been coaching Michelle for a while, or you have coached her anyway in the past. And every time you guys would talk about your work that you’ve done with her and she would say, “Oh yeah, I remember this time when you told me to tweak this thing, and that really helped me. And remember how now I do this.” After a while I was like I want to be Michelle.

So anyway, I think you guys have a really effective model there of just demonstrating obviously that you guys know each other, she trusts you, she does have, I can tell, accountability to herself as well.

And I think it’s important that you learn to – you have to be the one making your decisions, otherwise it doesn’t last. And I sense that from her, but at the same time that you’re so knowledgeable about nutrition. That you can recommend subtle things that might either impact the results she’s getting or psychologically how well she’s able to stick to it, which I found to be really fun to listen to.

Brad Jensen: Thank you, yeah. I’m glad to be hanging out with you at night.

Jody Moore: Yeah, it’s fun. Okay, so please tell me your story though, because I’ve heard you mention little pieces of your story here and there. But I don’t think I’ve ever heard you tell your story, I’m pretty sure my listeners haven’t. So tell us about Brad Jensen.

Brad Jensen: Well, so I think…

Jody Moore: Where do we begin?

Brad Jensen: Yeah, I came out of the womb. No. But actually kind of I always joke about this, but it’s actually there’s some seriousness to this, so obviously I don’t remember coming out of the womb. But I feel I came out just like a little restless, irritable, and discontent. And obviously I don’t know that but I can imagine, if I could talk I was like, “What’s going on? I don’t like this.”

And it started from a young age, so I guess to frame this a little bit for listeners, is that my sobriety date from drugs and alcohol was November 20^th of 2012. So I’m about 7½ years clean and sober off all mind-altering chemicals. And let me tell you, it wasn’t supposed to happen to a guy like me.

Jody Moore: What wasn’t supposed to happen?

Brad Jensen: To be an early drug addict for a decade. And when I say that I mean, because I’m the youngest of five kids I’m LDS, not very active now, but…

Jody Moore: But you were raised LDS?

Brad Jensen: Yeah. And still identify as that, and all my brothers had served missions, I had a great family, I had everything provided for me within reason, but also had to work for stuff. And so I’m not…

Jody Moore: Are you saying it wasn’t like we could look at your upbringing and be like, “That’s the reason he went down that path?”

Brad Jensen: 100%, yeah, I mean I was hanging out with people at the end that like I mean they don’t know their dad, or their dad’s dead or in prison for life. Their mom uses drugs with them. And I’m like, “Oh yeah, I don’t know, my dad’s in the bishop [inaudible] and my mom works at the Lion House downtown.”

Jody Moore: There’s no obvious cause, which I – that’s honestly the – I love – again, I don’t have a history of drug addiction. But I related a little bit to everything looks right, everything is the way it should be in my life, why am I so unhappy? What is the matter? So anyway, continue.

Brad Jensen: Yeah, I mean at a young age I just remember always kind of feeling like I didn’t quite fit in. And even though, you know, it wasn’t like I was bullied and stuffed in lockers or tormented by any means. I was part of like, I guess, well, like they were like cool kids, they weren’t like, you know.

And, but I was always kind of the one picked on, just in sly ways that 10, 12 year olds do. And I was a little bit chubby and overweight and they’d be like, “Brad will eat the pizza, he’s fat. And don’t worry; he’ll finish it off, look at the size of his belly.” And I’m like, so that’s not funny, that’s hurtful.

Jody Moore: No, it hurts.

Brad Jensen: But I would laugh but I always – and it’s weird, even when I was fitting in, I kind of felt like I was on the outside looking in all the time. I couldn’t explain it. And what it was, is I was very anxious, but I didn’t know how at a 10 year old, saying, “Mom, I think I’m having some anxiety.” And so at an early age I learned to make the crowd laugh with me, instead of at me. I started imitating things like Chris Farley on Saturday Night Live, and that always got them to laugh.

And one day I went over to a friend’s house and I was probably – I was 13 years old, and that friend had had parents who had left the church. And when left the church had totally gone off on, I mean I didn’t know what it was to be a swinger, I just knew they had a lot of people over and I thought it was really fun.

Jody Moore: Okay. They were like, let’s try the complete opposite now of what we’ve been.

Brad Jensen: Yeah, exactly. They put us in this basement and they were like, “We can only have the basement.” And in there was a liquor cabinet. And I remember they started drinking alcohol and they were like, “Do you want some?” And I thought no, I can’t, I don’t do that. And I’m like, “What does it feel like?” And they were like, “Just like everything melts away.”

And so that quick I just, against everything I was raised with, it was like a split decision, I was like, “Let me try some.” And it was a lot of peer pressure, it was a lot of the fact that I’m like, if I just kind of feel like I’m just free, I want to try it. So I took a sip and I remember I hated how bad it tasted. And the minute that I got the effects from it I thought this is amazing. And it was like this moment of – I kind of felt like I could breathe again.

And so that continued, I remember I felt so much guilt about doing it, that I didn’t do it again for a while, or I was like, I can’t tell my parents. And then it just kind of one thing led to another and it started back up. And that continued in somewhere along that way too, about 15, 16 years old, I got into what I’m into now. I got into fitness and nutrition, I was still overweight and I didn’t like it.

So I started taking my bike to Barnes & Noble and was reading any magazine. I remember the first time I picked up a fitness magazine, I was fascinated. And nothing about it made sense, it was some big bodybuilder on the cover and I’m like, I want to look like him. I’d never lifted weights. So I started following what these magazines would say and I started to see results, granted, it was a very restrictive plan for probably a female.

But I was never passionate about anything and that grabbed my attention so much. So much so that I remember telling – reading that alcohol was really, really bad for your results from a physical standpoint. So I said, “Okay, I’m not going to drink anymore, I can’t do that anymore.” So I stopped for a couple of years and I got really into fitness and completely transformed my body by the time I was 17 years old. And I’m talking like the girl who didn’t even know I existed, who was the hottest girl in school all of a sudden wanted to be with me.

And lots of ego started taking over and I remember just feeling like I’m a man. And I would go to these parties where people would be drinking alcohol, and I would be drinking a ready-to-drink protein shake, like a [inaudible]. I remember one time my buddy looked at me and said, “Man, don’t bring that in, everyone makes fun of you when you leave.” And I was like, “Oh, they do?” I said, “But I can’t drink alcohol now.”

And so he pulled out some painkillers, and this is how naïve I was still at this point, I said, “I’m not in any pain.” And he said, “No, they’ll make you feel like you’re drunk without having to feel the effects the next day.” And I was like, “I’m in.” And I tried them, I remember I just took them and about an hour later I remember saying to him, “This is the feeling I want the rest of my life.”

I finally, the anxiety was gone, because at that point too my love for fitness was so great, but it was all a cover up still, getting big muscles, being kind of popular in school based off one thing and one thing only, how I looked. I was very ego driven, and so I was still in this place of just kind of discontent inside. And from that point, I mean I’ll save you a whole log of 10 years, but it just got worse and worse, and eventually ended up dabbling into harder drugs pretty fast.

Jody Moore: Yeah. And you’ve tried a lot of pretty much what we would consider pretty hard drugs, right?

Brad Jensen: Yeah. So my parents had no clue, keep in mind. And by the time I was a senior in high school, towards the end of my senior year I’d linked up with some really, really popular guys. They were older than me, a couple – I thought they were so cool, it turns out they were losers, but I [inaudible].

Jody Moore: But when you were 18 they were cool?

Brad Jensen: Yeah. And they talked me down to driving down to Tijuana, Mexico and going to the pharmacies there. And getting a bunch of illegal drugs, putting them in my door panels, and screwing the door panels back on and driving back through. And so I did it, it was hideous, just not knowing the amount of federal felonies I was committing, I just was kind of ambivalent to it. I was just like, “Oh well, I’m being cool with these guys and I’ll have drugs.”

And so I started doing that and it worked, and so I did it three or four more times. And I’ll never forget, by this point I graduated high school and I was going to a little bit of college and personal training.

And my mom found a briefcase stuffed full of drugs, I mean it was after I’d gone down there. And my poor mom was like, “What is this?” And I just fed her the first lie that came to it, I was like, “Oh my gosh, this is my friend’s, I had no idea what was in it.” She bought the lie, I think because she wanted to, because they had no idea I was doing drugs, I was very good at covering it up. I graduated school, I wasn’t failing any classes, I didn’t show any big behavioral signs, I was very good at manipulating her around. And so she believed me.

And I remember thinking at that point well, they’re never going to do anything. And so then it progressed and I started doing heroin at an early age, I mean 19 years old. And by the time I was almost 21 I went to my first treatment center.

Jody Moore: Okay, so how did that happen, how did you end up in a treatment center?

Brad Jensen: Well, so you draw these lines in the sand and even as an active addiction, I thought okay, I’ll do pills, but I’m never touching that stuff, hard stuff, like heroin, that’s gross, that’s no. And my addiction had gotten pretty bad and I realized I had heard somebody got caught at the border and got stuck in a Mexican prison. And I was like, “I’m not going down there anymore.” I had learned too much to know that that was a very, very risky thing what I was doing.

And so I remember one time I was withdrawing and I wasn’t feeling well and this guy pulled some out and it was like, my first reaction was, “No, I don’t do that.” The second one was like, “Let me see it.” And so, without being too graphic I intranasally used heroin. And I remember this guy looking at me and he said, “Kid, your life’s never going to be the same.” And I still get chills when I say that. I remember him saying that and I’m like, “What does he mean?”

And from that point when I kind of – that was the tipping point, it was downhill. Lost my job as a trainer, my parents started to know something was up but didn’t quite know what because I wasn’t living at home, but they could tell.

And I got to this point where I thought, I can’t do this anymore, I am just like this is bad. And so I was about to get evicted from my apartment, I was two months behind on my car payment and so I called my mom.

And I’ll never forget, I called her and I told her, and I said, “I think need to go to rehab, I’m using heroin.” And I just heard the phone drop. And then I said, “Hello, hello.” She came back on the phone and she was just bawling, she’s like, “What do you want?” She was so taken off guard and but they did what any great parent would do and they immediately found me a great treatment center and I went. And I wish I could say that’s when it stopped, but that was in 2005, and my sobriety year’s in 2012, so.

Jody Moore: Okay, that was the beginning, it sounds like a shift a little bit, yeah?

Brad Jensen: 100%, the seed was planted there and it introduced me to 12 step rooms, like hey, hey, and then. And I saw people that were as bad as me or worse off that had recovered from seemingly this hopeless state of mind and body. And even though I wasn’t ready yet, the seed was planted. And so – but they have the saying in recovery, they say, “It gets worse, never better.”

And so I got out of that rehab and I thought, you know what, I have a problem with hardcore drugs, but I’m not – I don’t have a problem with alcohol, I haven’t drank in a long time. So I started drinking again, and immediately that got bad. And then – and I think anything I put in my body that cut me off from the sunlight of the spirit, it was the demons just took over. And it was immediately I would go back to what I really loved which was hard drugs.

And so it was just in and out of rehabs those years, I had 17 bookings into the county jail here, and did six months here, a year here. And every time I’d have this hope to finally get out and do something different. And I just wasn’t ready. I would just go back and it’s like, you end up living in your car and you’re like, this is the lowest I’m going to get. And so then I would get some brief moments of sobriety and then I’d think, I think I can control and enjoy this again, and so I was going back and forth.

Jody Moore: When you think about and talk about this story of your past, do you regret it?

Brad Jensen: Today, no.

Jody Moore: Tell me why. I was hoping you’d say that, I didn’t know if you would, but tell me why not.

Brad Jensen: No, I don’t. And probably even three or four years ago, probably three or four years into my sobriety, I would say I still have a lot of regret. But it’s all of those experiences really shaped me into who I am today. My spiritual connection and just the relationships I have in my life, it all brought me to this point, and quite frankly, entrepreneurship too, because when you don’t have a job for four or five years. But yet you’re maintaining a really expensive habit a day of drugs, you’re doing one of two things or both, committing a lot of crimes or selling the drugs.

And I learned how to like, really when I started a business I was like okay, I knew that, I somehow survived on the streets. And when my parents cut me off, it was so devastating, but if they would not have cut me off, I would not have gotten clean and sober. They finally said, “I love you enough to say, ‘We can’t have you in our lives like this anymore.’”

So [inaudible] around, and I’d stolen from them and but all of that, I learned some entrepreneurship 101. I had to like, “Okay, this person knows me this much; this is how much I have.” And it sounds so silly, but when I started a business I was like, “I don’t know what I’m doing but I think I can do this because somehow I survived on the streets for five years.” And I was – my nickname on the streets, Jody, was Pretty Boy. That is not a cool street name, there were dudes’ names like Psycho, and like Crazy and Loco, and they called me Pretty Boy, because I just didn’t quite fit in.

I came from a middle upper-class Mormon family. I didn’t have a gang family. I didn’t have any relatives in prison. And so all those experiences, and now being able to share my message of recovery, when I share at conferences or on podcasts like this. I am so grateful for everything I went through and every false start I had of trying to start. And then I think I had 50, like, “I’m going to do it this time, I’m going to get sober.”

Because that experience now, I translate to my clients. They don’t think I get it when it comes to food. But I do, I get false starts, I get this like, “I’m going to do it,” and then you don’t.

Jody Moore: And that’s what the journey looks like, it’s very rare in weight loss, or, I imagine addiction recovery or anything that you just one time sign up and everything works beautifully. The 50 false starts is the process, because don’t you think that every time you start and fall off the wagon, or whatever we want to call it, you still learn something? I always think you’re not starting over again, you are progressing, it’s just a matter of am I going to take that fail now and learn the lessons from it? Or am I going to give up on the other side of it or what am I going to do now?

It’s how you handle the – I always think about babies learning to walk, you guys are, you’re about to have – your wife’s about to have a baby, yeah?

Brad Jensen: June 10^th.

Jody Moore: Is it going to be your first?

Brad Jensen: Yeah.

Jody Moore: Oh my gosh, so it’s June 10^th, that was my due date for my first.

Brad Jensen: Oh wow, when did he come?

Jody Moore: He came on the 14^th, but I hope yours comes June 10^th, for her sake. But at any rate, so babies learning to walk, they learn to prop themselves up and then they fall down. And then they maybe take a step or two and they fall down. And it’s the getting up from falling down that strengthens their leg muscles enough to be able to walk. So without the falling down and getting up, think about all the squats they’re doing. Then that is how their legs get strong enough to walk.

And I think that’s true of us in any stage of our lives, even though we think it didn’t work, I didn’t do it, I wasn’t successful. No, you have to fall down to strengthen your muscles in order to be able to walk.

Brad Jensen: I love that. And your line in one of your podcasts I use frequently, so thank you. But it’s exactly, you know, is relevant to this discussion too was I wasn’t quite ready to make – you always talk about the real decision is made when the motivation, and this is new and this is fun. Or like with dieting and self-development, that’s when the real decision is made. It’s when kind of the wheels fall off and it’s not going anymore, it’s not super motivating inherently, it’s not new.

And it was like the minute that came, every time I tried to get sober, the real decision was not made, I would go back to…

Jody Moore: Yeah, which is okay, it took you a while to make it, but that’s alright.

Brad Jensen: 100%, I’m so grateful everything I went through, every time I tried and I don’t believe that I’d be where I’m at today had I not been through all of that, and I’m just so eternally grateful that I made it out alive. Because a lot of drug addicts that use IV heroin and meth and amphetamine and cocaine don’t survive. And so I just feel so grateful for that, every day that I get to be alive.

Jody Moore: You posted on Instagram a post I want to share here on April 7^th, so this was for most of us about two or three weeks into our heavy quarantining, if you will. And you said, “Seven years ago I was homeless, in a self-imposed prison of drug addiction, quarantined with the disease of addiction. Today I’m quarantined in a nice home, food on my table, and peace of mine. Hard for me to find much room to bitch and complain right now, #life is good.”

I thought that was, you know, it shows me that you have a perspective of life that you wouldn’t have, had you not gone through that experience. And as challenging as I’m sure it was and as heartbreaking as it was for your parents and everybody and yourself, you would not be the person you are today without that.

Brad Jensen: No. Yeah, thanks for sharing that. And I don’t believe that my parents would be the people they are today. My dad thought I was very much a bad person and he got involved with a group called Al-Anon, which is basically friends and family of alcoholics or addicts. My dad has had almost every calling I can remember from state presidency, to being a bishop, to – he was just recently, I think he actually still is, but I can’t go in, the bishop out at the women’s prison here in Utah.

And he thought that through my addiction, he thought I was just a bad person. And then when I heard him say, “I’m so grateful that I’ve learned that,” and this is a little bit into my sobriety, maybe a year, he said, “That you were a sick person trying to get well, not a bad person trying to get good.” And this is from a man who is very staunch in his religious beliefs and but he says he’s just been so much more opened and less judgmental as he’s gone through his own recovery process because of me.

And what the fulfillment it’s given to his life, where he is now – he takes these Alateens, which are teenagers of parents who are active alcoholics and addicts, out camping, and he helps all these things. And so I look at kind of like what recovery has done for my whole family and it’s just a beautiful thing.

Jody Moore: That’s awesome, what a cool story. So let’s talk just a little bit about nutrition and food, can we?

Brad Jensen: Please.

Jody Moore: Okay. So I wanted to hear your thoughts about why we’re so emotional about food, do you notice this with your clients, that there’s a lot of emotion around it? What do you think that’s about?

Brad Jensen: I think it’s different for each person, but I think as a whole, I think a lot of it – I actually genuinely believe, states back to what – why I started using drugs and alcohol in the first place. Which was this kind of escape of just being me, and just, I think for that brief moment when people emotionally eat it, it feels good. It kind of takes them into this different place and I think that food is also very much a culture thing.

And you look at here in Utah, I mean yeah, we have a healthy LDS population, so less drugs and alcohol and obviously there’s people like me who can prove you can come from a good Mormon family and get addicted. But I think that food is such a reward center, I think that there’s cookie shops, there’s a So Delicious or a Swig or these crumble cookies, like cookie, cookie, cookie, like all these cookie places.

And it’s like even though they don’t drink drugs and alcohol, I think a lot of people with those kinds of morals and values also tend to – like sugar’s that escape, I think. The hit of dopamine you get when you eat it, I think it’s different for everybody. I think some of it is very family driven; the dynamics of their family are centered around food. For example, I have a Latino client, and that is what they do. And she feels shamed by them when she doesn’t participate in the Tamales and the chips and guac, and this and that.

Jody Moore: Yeah, it’s very cultural. So I don’t talk about food and nutrition a lot on my podcasts, a little bit, I do coach a little bit on the mental side of eating healthy. But when I do talk about it on the podcasts, I mean I get a lot of positive comments, but I get negative feedback too, no matter what I say. And sometimes it’s people saying that they have an eating disorder and they’re really triggered, and they don’t understand why I’m talking about this.

And then there’s people saying, “You don’t know what you’re talking about,” which I’m like, it’s true, in some ways I don’t know what I’m talking about, I’m just sharing my opinion. What’s interesting to me is there’s certain topics I can do a podcast on that I know are going to trigger people emotionally. And I’m not intentionally triggering people, I just, like for example, if I do an episode on pornography. I know that if I have a listener who either has a pornography problem or their spouse does, that triggers a lot of emotions for them, I understand that I need to be really sensitive.

Food is the one that I’m always so surprised at how much emotional comments I get, again, whether it be eating disorders or people saying to me, “You should just teach intuitive eating, that’s the best way.” People have such strong opinions about the best way and the best method and whether or not you should, you know, like body love, which I’m a big fan of. But so many strong opinions, right?

Brad Jensen: Yeah, one million percent, and that is a really hard space to navigate as – and I get a lot of – I don’t want to use the word ‘haters’. Some of them are because they don’t even follow me. And then others are people who normally engage with myself, and I don’t mind to dialog back and forth with that. But I’ll get people that are like completely disagree, “You’re so far off,” and this and that, because there’s no one set way to do nutrition. There’s so many…

Jody Moore: And one of the things I love about – sorry to interrupt you, what I love about the way you teach and talk about it is I feel like you own that. You’re like, “There isn’t one right way.” For some of my clients, some of these things are going to work and for other clients it’s different. And that’s where you as a coach, I feel like come in is, you’re like, “We’re going to have to experiment and see what works for you.”

But I listened recently to your episode on the six biggest mistakes that we make. I can’t remember if that was the exact title, but like the six…

Brad Jensen: I’m sorry, I can’t remember.

Jody Moore: Something like that and you talked – one of the things was you talked about people diet hopping, sort of like well, it’s keto and now I’m going to try plant based. But then I read an article saying, “This is the best way.” And there is a lot of that out there and that obviously we’re sabotaging every time we change plans.

But I feel like you’re very open to – and correct me if I’m wrong, but let’s figure out what works for the client. And you have so much knowledge about the body and the way our bodies respond to food and supplements and things like that, that you can use as tools.

Brad Jensen: 100%, it’s like here’s the thing, every single diet inherently works, if it didn’t it wouldn’t be a thing, I promise you. If somebody somewhere didn’t get results they wouldn’t even be a thing. Every diet inherently works when you look at weight loss, because it creates some form of calorie deficit. So whether you’re dropping that off from carbs and doing keto, or whether you’re, you know, whatever that strategy is, so they all work. But what works for you is always my question.

And so I have clients, people always ask me, “What do I think about intermittent fasting?” I’m like, “Do you hate eating breakfast, and could that work for your window and allow you a little better structure in your life?” And they’re like, “I think I could,” or, “No, I love breakfast, that’s my favorite meal of the day.” I’m like, “Well, I really wouldn’t do a window of like 12 to 7 then.” And it’s very, it’s like taking people who get way far out of my field and then just sowing back in, I mean what’s going to work for you?

So I think that an example would be intuitive eating, I think that is inherently the goal for most of my clients to get to a place, because I believe that’s going to give you the most freedom. And I have clients right now who are intuitively eating to try to lose weight. And I will tell you, it is a much slower process, I can’t give as many tactical changes because we don’t really know where they’re at.

And we go a lot off of how they feel and, some people, they don’t really care if they’re dropping really slow, they want a better relationship with food. And I think it’s great, but I also think intuitive eating is the goal for everyone to maintain their weight. I’m not set on it working for everyone to lose weight. Now, if you just want to get a better relationship with food in your body, but you don’t really care about the scales changing, can be a viable option for you.

So yeah, we’re in a space where you’re going to have – and you have these zealots, you have these people that are just like blood thirsty when I say even one negative thing about any dietary protocol. And it’s funny how divided it is, it’s like…

Jody Moore: Yeah, it is, it’s just fascinating.

Brad Jensen: There’s one crowd out of here that says eat nothing but plants, that’s how you have to. And you’ve got this carnivore crowd saying, “Eat nothing, just have meat.”

Jody Moore: Just protein.

Brad Jensen: And it’s like they both are right to a degree.

Jody Moore: Yeah, that’s right.

Brad Jensen: But what’s going to be right for you and so yeah, that’s where I’m at with that.

Jody Moore: Okay, so a couple of things, one, I think to just to kind of close off this discussion of the emotion behind it is I feel like we almost make food like a religion. I hear people start saying, “I ate that and it was – I wasn’t supposed to eat that, I shouldn’t have eaten that, and that was bad to eat.” But as though there’s like a moral implication behind it. And I know we don’t logically think that, but we start talking about it that way and we start feeling guilty because we ate it, which is now we’ve made it moral.

And I think it’s fascinating to watch that and I have noticed for myself anyway, that the more I remind myself that this isn’t a moral issue, this isn’t good or bad, it just is going to affect my body one way or another way. And then I don’t have to attack myself when I’ve eaten the chocolate instead of the apple. And then it’s much easier to eat an apple the next time because I’m not compensating for the self-loathing I’m doing for what I ate.

Brad Jensen: Exactly. Sorry, I went off. Yes, back to the emotional, I completely agree. And that’s what I love personally, and not all my clients do this and this, again, just personal preference, and it seems to work the best. Is at first, when people are trying to get some body composition change, or just feel a lot better, having them start to track macros, and because I believe the macros, first off, you can teach somebody how to do it. But secondly, gives them freedom to see that there’s no good or bad foods, there’s more advantageous foods and loss, just like you said.

It’s like you can get just as many carbs from a big sweet potato or three Oreos, what’s your choice? And they’re going to build the same carbohydrate, no matter what’s going to keep you way more full, going to give you more micronutrients, going to help you feel better? Well, obviously the sweet potato. But are you bad if you ate the Oreos? No. And so that’s what I love about macros, is kind of teaching people there’s no good and bad food.

Jody Moore: Yeah, I love that.

Brad Jensen: It’s more advantageous, less advantageous, but they’re just food. And when you can kind of strip that label off it, you’re not bad if you eat an Oreo, and you’re not good if you eat a sweet potato, it’s just food.

Jody Moore: That’s right. Another thing I found interesting is that you use the word ‘diet’ a lot. And a lot of people, it seems like have veered away from that word and diet gets such a bad rap. Tell me about your thoughts about that word and why you use it.

Brad Jensen: Well, and I’m going to butcher the actual definition, so I probably should look it up, but.

Jody Moore: No, let’s hear the Brad Jensen definition.

Brad Jensen: Diet just refers to the food consumed each day. I’m butchering the actual definition. But if you look up ‘diet’ in the dictionary, it’s something along the lines of a food protocol that someone follows, or a general idea of food consumed by an individual, that is their diet. So what has happened is mainstream media has taken the word ‘diet’ and spun it into a negative connotation.

And so when I use the word ‘diet’ I’m kind of looking at in the sense of dieting, if I use that word, I’m simply talking about a calorie deficit. You’re eating less calories than you can eat to maintain. So we’re in a form of dieting because we’re eating less, therefore we’re hoping to get an adaptation or a response of fat loss, because the body says, “Hey, I don’t have enough energy. I’m going to tap into some of this fat storage.” And that’s how you lose body fat.

Jody Moore: We call it “dining in.”

Brad Jensen: Yeah, I like that.

Jody Moore: I’m kind of hungry, not time to eat, I think I’ll dine in, let’s eat something off my thighs.

Brad Jensen: I actually love that; I’ve never heard that.

Jody Moore: That’s Brooke Castillo that uses that word, anyway.

Brad Jensen: I love that.

Jody Moore: Anyway, okay, so that’s when you say dieting you mean a calorie deficit?

Brad Jensen: Yeah. And there is a part of me too that’s like, well, let me tell you. So I actually had that thought where I was like, I use the word ‘diet’ a lot. And some people don’t like that word, so maybe I shouldn’t say it anymore. And then I thought, no, but you can’t just pander what you think everyone else, because I also want to have people see it, that the word ‘diet’, what’s wrong with the word ‘diet’ is what we have done to it.

Jody Moore: Yeah, that’s right.

Brad Jensen: We’ve made it this very negative thing. I think about my mom, when I was like 13, my first experience what dieting looked like, and she was eating, it was like a cabbage soup diet, it was awful. And I remember how mean my mom was. So I remember at that point, I thought diet is really bad, and so over the years.

And so I think part of my message is too, maybe reframing what you think, what feelings come up when you hear the word ‘diet’, and maybe let’s work on changing that. Because if you’re doing something that’s practical, that’s a realistic sustainable approach and you’re having consistency in that and maybe that can change what you think of diet, so.

Jody Moore: And the way I hear you talk about it is that it is – because I always just I’m trying to warn my clients that we want to be careful about having this temporary mentality of I’m going to eat this way temporarily. Because then they tend to go back to their old habits and then just put the weight right back on.

But what I hear you talking about in your podcast, it seems like, well, no, we are temporarily going to have a calorie deficit and then we’re probably going to just maintain after that, so not like go back to eating whatever the heck I want. But you’re not going to have a calorie deficit forever, is that what you’re saying?

Brad Jensen: Yes. I mean in fact, people, why they end up hating dieting is they try to diet way too long. The body’s not really – especially the less body fat you have, unless you have a lot of body fat, you’re really looking – and I hate to give timeframes because it changes. But the longest I can diet for, meaning eating the calorie deficit and anything kind of moderate to a little bit high, is about six weeks. I start having huge hormonal reactions, my energy tanks, my sex drive, my sleep, all these factors I teach to my clients about just – and I can tell that my body’s adapting in a very negative way.

And also, my mood is severely affected, I am not a nice person to be around, and that’s why call it hangry. And so that’s about as long as I can go. And honestly, I start having such bad reactions, and then for most people let’s call it maybe three to four months is the longest they should really be dieting. Meaning eating the calorie deficit for any extended amount of time without doing some kind of break from that for a while.

Jody Moore: What if you feel like you can only go six days, I mean just hypothetically speaking?

Brad Jensen: Well, no, but that’s actually a really good point you brought up. So I’m a real big fan of doing one high day a week, so let’s say you have six days in a calorie deficit, one day return back to maintenance calories. That one day allows somebody a mental break from this. They get to enjoy some food and not feel bad about it, because it’s staying within their plan.

And there’s break from dieting from a physiological standpoint, and a psychological. Even though they’re still eating clean foods, they can fit in maybe, I had some fries, or they can fit in. And I don’t like to call it the word ‘cheat’, I hate the word ‘cheat meal’. This industry is the only industry that cheat is associated with something good.

Jody Moore: It’s an excellent point.

Brad Jensen: They’re like, “I get my cheat meal tonight.” Nobody’s like, “I’m going to go cheat on my wife tonight,” like that’s not [inaudible].

Jody Moore: I get to reward myself because I’ve been so good all week.

Brad Jensen: Yeah, been faithful for six days, so I just call it a high day and more flexibility within that day. But, honestly, a lot of people can’t go much longer than six. So even just six on, one off day of being able to have higher calories, still trying to make most of them clean, but having some more flexibility drives so much better adherence. So I would say even some of my clients have a structure like that.

Jody Moore: Yeah, I love it. Okay, well, we could talk all day.

Brad Jensen: Yeah, just going to go back to the – sorry, get back to your point.

Jody Moore: Yeah, go ahead.

Brad Jensen: And reverse diet back, so the idea is that whatever food you’re eating, you’re still eating micronutrient. I don’t like to use the word ‘healthy’ or ‘unhealthy’ because that goes in good or bad. But more advantageous, like micronutrient, dense foods, good quality foods, whole foods, fruits, vegetables, and then having 20% of your food on a weekly basis, be a little bit of a treat here or something there. And learning that balance, but the idea is that if you do it in a sustainable way we’re making better food choices, but it’s still food you like and that you would eat.

So when you get down on that, then go back to maintenance, you’re just eating those same foods but just in a higher quantity, and you’re just getting more food. And that’s how this becomes unrealistic, “No, you’re not going to have to diet the rest of your life.”

Clients always say that to me and I’m like, “No, if you put in the work now and we get to a place where you want to be, maintenance is a lot easier.” It’s not nearly as like; I’ve got to be zoned in because you have more food to work with. And maybe some of those people it’s intuitive eating at that point, maybe it’s tracking maintenance calories or whatever, so.

Jody Moore: Okay, I love it. Well, definitely, you guys, if you want more go listen to The Key Nutrition podcast. You have a little bit of a history of bodybuilding, yeah, you competed as a bodybuilder for a little while, did I hear that somewhere?

Brad Jensen: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jody Moore: Is that where – I mean you said you started studying nutrition and fitness even as a teenager. But do you think – my thought was, gosh, he really learned all about food and nutrients and the way they affect the body. I would imagine as a bodybuilder you’re really fine-tuning everything there, right?

Brad Jensen: Yeah. No, it was a good experience for that, and in the first one was a very, you know, in a really funny way a very spiritual experience. Because it was something that I had said since, you know, I got certified as a personal trainer when I was still a senior in high school. So I was the youngest personal trainer at my gym and I remember everyone was like, “You should compete, man, you look great.” And I kept saying, “One day I’m going to, one day.” I couldn’t stay sober and so it was always one day.

And so when I finally got about 18 months sober I decided I’m going to finally do this. And it was this reward of pushing myself and it was a very spiritual experience because I didn’t think I could do it. I saw it all the way from start to finish, it was so hard, and I did it and I learned so much about my body. And it was really fun and I got off and I did really well, and I didn’t expect to do really well. And immediately I was like I should do another one.

And the reason I went into the second one was very ego driven and it was a complete opposite experience, it was not fun. It was very damaging to my relationships. I was not happy, it was – I said very foul things to myself, looking at myself in the mirror. It was just a whole different experience and it was just one was like I was almost just like prompting to do it. I was like, “Just do it, do it, it’s going to be hard but you’re going to have so much fun.”

The second one was like well, I did well, now I’m going to do even better, I’m going to show them. And so – but I loved what I learned about my body, and it’s very – those kind of finite tools to be able to use, and aren’t ones you use very often, but they’re fun to know, when you talk about really manipulating your body. And it still fascinates me. I don’t think I’ll ever compete again.

Jody Moore: Yeah. Well, and I just think that your knowledge though, obviously the knowledge that you have is so useful. And my guess is most of your clients don’t need it to that extreme. But I also love what you’re talking about with your bodybuilding career, but even your love and passion for nutrition, that what’s driving it matters so much. Like the way I teach my clients is you have a thought, and that creates a feeling, and that feeling is driving your action.

And so when you think back to when you were 15, 16, 17 and you were paying attention to what you were eating and working on your nutrition. But what was driving it was your insecurity, your desire to prove something, and then you get a certain result. Whereas, now you’re fuelled by something completely different, and it’s a similar action of monitoring your food, working out in the gym. But you’re going to get an entirely different result when you’re fuelled by something different, it’s so powerful to watch.

Brad Jensen: Yeah.

Jody Moore: And everybody thinks it’s the action, they’re like, “Just tell me what to do.” I’m sure you get this, “Just tell me what to eat, tell me how much to work out.” I get people that just tell me what to say to my kid, to get them to stop lying. And I always back it up and like, “Listen, I can tell you what I think you should do, but what matters more is what is the thought feeling driving it?” The way you have that conversation with your kid is going to be one way, and through driven by fear and panic, than if you’re driven by calm and peace. So we always have to start there, yeah.

Brad Jensen: Yes, I couldn’t agree more. That I really try to teach my clients, find these leverage points in their journey. And I tell people, “If you’re just looking to get in shape and you just want me to be kind of this militant, like this is what you’re doing, you don’t even care why. You just want to do it so you can get said result, probably not your coach because I want you to sustain this, and I want you to learn.”

Because when get to a point of like just maintenance, it’s like you’re not seeing progress really down, yeah, you’re not seeing it declining too. But what keeps you just going then? And it’s got to be like I show up better for my staff, I show up better for my wife when I’m taking care of myself physically, when I get up early and go to the gym. So I make sure I get that in, that’s my me time.

And when I prioritize, that’s why I do it, I do just love. I show up better as a person. I feel better, I have better energy and I just, I love it. And I want clients to get to that point where they find these points where they’re just like, “Man, I’m even noticing I’m a better mom when I take care of myself.”

Jody Moore: That’s right. And I’m taking care of myself because I love me, not because if I can lose some weight then I’ll believe I’m lovable, it has to go in the opposite, so. Well, thank you so much for coming on. If you guys want more Brad Jensen, I follow him on Instagram, he’s the Sober Bodybuilder on Instagram, yeah? Or are you Brad Jensen on Instagram?

Brad Jensen: No. You noticed they changed, and it says the names now too?

Jody Moore: Is that what it is? They just changed Instagram on me.

Brad Jensen: Yeah.

Jody Moore: Okay.

Brad Jensen: Yes, but it’s the Sober Bodybuilder on Instagram.

Jody Moore: Okay. And then his podcast, the Key Nutrition podcast, and then also if people want to get some coaching and some help from you or your team, where do they go?

Brad Jensen: Yeah. So you can either DM me directly on Instagram or go to the website, which is keynutrition.com.  And I’ve got myself, and I’ve opened back up my roster for the time being, probably close soon. And my team is great too, there’s a directory of coaches on there you can pick from. And then you can just contact them directly to set up or send in a request form, so either way.

And, yeah, we just started a course called The Next Level Experience, which is basically taking the kind of the principles that were based around my recovery journey through the 12 steps. And tying in a fitness and nutrition aspect, so we’re in a beta round of that, and in eight weeks we’ll be launching the full first iteration. And it’s just going to be becoming more spiritually fed, emotionally fed, [inaudible] fed and obviously physically fed, so.

Jody Moore: Okay, cool, so lots of options. And I, in full disclosure, I signed up for a consult with Brad, so I’m going to talk about maybe hiring him to coach me, so we’ll report back.

Brad Jensen: Yeah, I’m super excited about that.

Jody Moore: When I’m super skinny. We’ll have my kids talk about whether or not I’m grumpy, I guess.

Brad Jensen: Yeah, I don’t want you grumpy, so we’ve got to watch that.

Jody Moore: Alright, thank you so much for your time and for coming on, really appreciate it.

Brad Jensen: Yes, thank you, really appreciate it.

Jody Moore: Who is your life coach? If you don’t have one I would be so honored to be your coach. I created a virtual coaching program called Be Bold that I want to invite you to join me in. We can address challenges, we can work on goals, and we can do it in so many different ways. We have group coaching, individual private coaching, and online chats along with hundreds of hours of courses and content that I’ve created just for you. When you’re ready to really take what you’re learning on the podcast to the 10x level, then come check out Be Bold at JodyMoore.com/membership.